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August 8th. For most people, August 8th is merely a reference to the upcoming Beijing

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Olympics. Because of the sheer passage of time, most people have forgotten August 8th,

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1978, when police in Philadelphia unleashed a blitzkrieg against members of the MOVE organization.

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There police fired hundreds of rounds into the house, fired tons of water, and after

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people were flushed from their homes, several were beaten on the street. The cops who beat

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one man, Delbert Africa for example, were ordered, acquitted by a local judge despite

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videotape. When MOVE members went to trial, nine men and women were railroaded on dubious

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charges for killing a cop who almost certainly was the subject of so-called friendly fire.

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The city of Philadelphia made sure that this question couldn't be resolved by literally

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tearing down MOVE's house, allegedly an active crime scene, by nightfall. But none of this

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mattered, for there was a railroad in process and nine MOVE people were sent to state gulags

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for 30 to 100 years. Behind the attack on MOVE was certainly their radical lifestyle

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in opposition to state power, but there was also the dynamic of powerful real estate interests

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which wanted to expand their holdings to create a greater university city. For MOVE, August

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8th isn't 30 years ago. It's yesterday. It's that close. They need your support to end

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this injustice. From Death Row, this is Mumia Abu Jamal.

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These commentaries are produced by Noelle Hanrahan for Prison Radio.

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Thank you.

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The MOVE organization surfaced in Philadelphia during the early 1970s. Characterized by Dreadlock

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Hare, the adopted surname Africa, a principled unity, and an uncompromising commitment to

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their belief, members practiced the teachings of MOVE founder John Africa.

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The basic teaching of John Africa is to protect life of the enslavement of this system, which

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means all life, which means animals, which means protecting animals from the encasement

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of zoos, which means protecting animals from the encasement of zoos, which means protecting

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political prisoners from being locked up in prison. That's our work. Our work is the free

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life of the enslavement of this system.

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Now when people think of the system, they don't think of an organization that they're

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supposed to be fighting. They think of a system of some fictitious character that nobody really

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sees, nobody really knows who it is, right? But the system is all around us. It's everywhere.

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It's in your churches. It's in your schools. It's everywhere. It's up here. It's up there.

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It's in your mind. It's in my mind. It's in all of our minds because we have come in contact

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with it, and we are imposed on by that disease.

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MOVE organization target is getting rid of the system. I'm not sure how long it's going

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to take for that to happen. I know it's not going to happen overnight, but that's MOVE.

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Goal is to get rid of this system. Like I say, it's a free life of the enslavement.

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Revolution to us is not a bloody battle against the oppressors. Revolution to us means generation.

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It means to move forward.

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As long as you're not compromising and you're going forward, then you are victorious. You

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are only defeated when you stop fighting, when you give up. And that is what MOVE understands.

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And it is that single principle that is defeating this system.

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During the early 1970s, MOVE was based in the Powelton Village section of West Philadelphia.

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They purchased a large Victorian house on 309 North 33rd Street, which became their

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headquarters. Members valued the personal discipline and physical strength derived from

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hard manual labor and maintained a hefty work schedule of daily activities such as

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exercising, running dogs, and chopping firewood.

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We used to demonstrate against puppy palaces and any stores that used to sell life for

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exploitation, just for capital gains.

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We were demonstrating against police brutality. We were demonstrating against the pet stores

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and the zoos about their treatment or mistreatment of animals. We were doing some work with the

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neighborhood gangs in terms of selling some of those disputes they had out there. But

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most of our work was centered on the liberation of animals and the liberation of people.

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These are the things that was never ever talked about in the early days that MOVE was engaged

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with. Very productive things, things that are very popular now, things that are very

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accepted now. You even have the Green Party, an environmental party that runs on this.

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But this was nothing that was ever focused on about the MOVE organization.

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Throughout the 1970s, Frank Rizzo was the premier figure in Philadelphia government.

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He started as a street cop and rose through the ranks, eventually serving as police commissioner

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from 1967 to 1971. During this time, Rizzo gained notoriety for his tough guy law enforcement

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tactics and racist attitude. Capitalizing on his name and recognition and tough on crime

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image, Rizzo mobilized sufficient voters to be elected mayor of the city for two terms

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from 1972 until 1980. Throughout Rizzo's time as police commissioner and mayor, the Philadelphia

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police were nationally known for their brutality. As a result of MOVE's demonstration strategy,

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MOVE members were arrested on a regular basis.

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The confrontation started with authority and then it wound up that we were going to court

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and then the confrontation started with the courts and the judges and it just snowballed

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into one confrontation after another against the system.

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You have to understand that the MOVE organization had challenged the authority and the jurisdiction

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of every courtroom that any MOVE member ever stepped in and they challenged it vigorously

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and they challenged it from the outset so that the power of the court to hear their

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case, whatever case there might have been, was always challenged by MOVE. You don't have

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authority, you don't have the power to hear this case. And it was really a very powerful

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challenge to the power of the state inside the courtroom.

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MOVE never let the threat of being arrested stop their demonstrations. Yet events soon

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proved that police harassment wasn't limited to just demonstrations.

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So on our way they stopped us and just started harassing us and they grabbed us both. Both

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of us were pregnant, obviously pregnant, and they grabbed us and slammed us against the

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paddy wagon and arrested us, put us in handcuffs and took us to the station. Well while we

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were getting arrested we were counting it like trying to break our arms, trying to like

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really messing us up. So they handcuffed us, put us in the paddy wagon and took us to the

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district, I think it was 56th and Pine District. Anyway when they got us there they handcuffed

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us to wooden chairs, knowing that me and Lee Singh were pregnant, they wouldn't let us

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go to the bathroom, wouldn't let us make phone calls, and didn't give us anything to eat.

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As a result of that both of us suffered miscarriages.

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On March 28th, 1976, seven jailed MOVE members were released from jail late in the evening.

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Some of our families were being released from prison and as usual, you know, we'd greet

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them and it was like two in the morning and it was just us out and it wasn't really loud,

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it was just family greeting family and all of a sudden these cop cars pull up with no

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lights, no nothing, they just pull up on the street and the cop car stops in front of the

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house, the cop comes over and he says that he had a report that there was a disturbance,

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a fight going on. So Chuckie told them that there's no fight, it's just MOVE people were

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greeting our family home from prison so you know go ahead, there's no problem. When he

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said that, they all come out the car and rush over the street where we're at and they just

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start swinging their blackjack. I was standing in front of my husband Phil and the cop to

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get the pill, he just took me and slammed me on the ground. I had my three-week-old son

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in my arms and when he slammed me down, he just stomped over me to get the pill and I

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don't know how but the baby's head was crushed and I just was so upset I jumped up and I

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ran back in the house. I must have been in shock because my family just found me in the

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house holding the baby and the baby had died. MOVE immediately contacted media to report

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the death of Life Africa and displayed a police hat and broken nightstick outside of their

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headquarters. To prove the death to a skeptical media, MOVE invited press and politicians

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over to their headquarters to show them the body of Life Africa. And I was invited on

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one Friday evening, a cold blustery winter evening when they invited people in to see

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the dead baby and I actually sat in front of the house for an hour debating on whether

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I would go in and in the end I opted not to go. MOVE then brought the case to court where

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many neighbors were willing to testify that they witnessed the attack on MOVE and the

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death of Life Africa. But before all the testimony could be heard, Judge Murnah Marshall

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dismissed the case. Because you know MOVE did not go, they did their own birth in house

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and they didn't register their children with the authorities and then they ordered MOVE

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to produce the corpse of the kid such that they could do an autopsy to determine the

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cause of death and MOVE contended that that type of an act was in variance and actually

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in violation of their religious practices. They didn't go in for autopsies. So because,

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you know the bottom line is because MOVE did not produce the baby, the city refused to

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do an investigation and that's both the police department and the district attorney's office

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who at the time was headed by Ed Rendell. After the death of Life Africa, MOVE was convinced

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the city was trying to terminate MOVE. The organization felt compelled to arm themselves.

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On May 20, 1977, MOVE set up a platform outside the headquarters and began demonstrating.

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MOVE members stood on the platform demanding the release of MOVE prisoners and demanded

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an end to the violent city campaign of harassment against MOVE. Due to the demonstration on

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May 20, 1977, Judge Lynn Abraham issued warrants for 11 MOVE members on charges of riot and

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possession of an instrument of crime.

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And finally we just decided as an organization to take a position, take a position on that

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platform and let these people know that if they came at us with whatever, with fists,

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with clubs, with guns, whatever, then we would meet them on equal terms. And that's how the

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confrontation started. Rizzo filed in court to set up a starvation blockade around MOVE

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headquarters. The courts approved his request. On March 16, 1978, hundreds of cops set up

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barricades around MOVE headquarters and shut off their water to starve MOVE out. On April

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4, 1978, thousands marched around City Hall in protest of the city's actions.

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What MOVE wanted was to be left alone. They wanted the right to exercise their first,

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second and fourth amendment rights. And they had five or six of their members that were

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in prison, and they wanted those folks released from prison. And the negotiations went on

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and back and forth for almost a year. The city wanted MOVE to vacate.

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During the time the arrest warrants for MOVE were given in 1977, up until almost a year

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later, many negotiators tried to resolve the problem between MOVE and the city.

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Some people who I was told were Quakers or something had offered them some land out in

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Chester County. So I asked John Africa, why wouldn't they MOVE out there, you know? And

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his answer was, why don't the city MOVE? And they said, that's crazy. I said, but that's

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his answer. Why is this crazy? He's here and he's satisfied where he is, you know, and

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that's what he said. Why don't the city MOVE?

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Finally, MOVE was met with an offer they couldn't refuse. All MOVE prisoners were released on

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May 8, and the city agreed to drop all charges that faced MOVE. In the agreement, the city

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was allowed to search MOVE headquarters for weapons and explosives. While searching MOVE

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headquarters, the city only found inoperable weapons, dummy firearms, and road flares.

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After the city realized that MOVE had no real firearms, MOVE claimed that the city began

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twisting parts of their agreement. The main point that was disputed between MOVE and the

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city was the 90-day agreement. MOVE claimed that they agreed to the city finding them

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a new home within a 90-day working timetable. The city claimed that the 90-day agreement

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was a deadline where MOVE must leave their house or be evicted by the city.

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I think that the perception was that MOVE would leave, but I must be honest and tell

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you that it may not have been as clear as that, or clearly stated as that, which then

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left a window of opportunity for either side to, you know, make claims.

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Yes, he said, we will drag them out by the scrubs to their necks. He answered that question.

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Did you ask him what if they resist the scrubs to their necks? Did you make him go down to

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detail to say, well yeah, if they resist, I'm going to kill them? Did you make him put

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out his intentions? No. You don't never question Rizzo. And Rizzo is questionable. That man

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ain't told the truth since he got in office. That man ain't been agreeable since he got

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the name of man. We're standing about time that y'all start putting the truth. Don't

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question the person that's telling the truth. Question the person that's telling the lie.

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We ain't talking about hurting nobody's religion. We ain't talking about killing off

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nobody's religion. Rizzo is talking about religion persecution. He's talking about

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putting us in a gas oven. He's talking about killing our babies. Genocide, like they did

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to Indians, like they did to Jews. We're standing about time that the news media start

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questioning Rizzo's record.

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Neighbors complained about Move collecting stray dogs and walking the dogs through the

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neighborhood. And at various hours of the night, they complained about the compost that

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Move had built in their yard.

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On August 2nd, 1978, Judge Fred DiBona ruled that Move had disregarded the 90-day deadline

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and that they should have vacated the house. During this hearing, DiBona gave the city

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the power to arrest basically all known adult Move members, including members that weren't

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in the house. On August 8th, 1978, hundreds of cops in flak jackets and riot helmets

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surrounded Move headquarters to carry out Judge DiBona's ruling.

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They came on August 8th, you know, with bulldozers and tanks and anti-personnel carriers and

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you know, they assaulted us.

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Forty-five police then entered the Move household and searched all three floors of the

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house, only to find Move barricaded in the basement. Around 8 a.m., firemen cried off

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the boarded windows of the basement and started flooding the basement with water cannons.

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Twenty-five hundred gallons of water per minute or something like that, you know, it's

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just too much for anybody to stand up.

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The water that was coming in the basement was so strong, it was taking the bricks out

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the wall. First it was taking the paint off, it was buzzing up things, then it was taking

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the bricks out the wall.

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There was a consensus by a majority of the people there that the shot was fired from

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up the street.

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And I heard a shot, what sounded like a shot, from the left and behind me near Pearl Street.

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And I immediately dropped to the ground, right, because I just assumed all hell was going

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to break loose.

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There's lots of shots being fired. The shots don't seem real. That's what's funny. It

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just doesn't seem real.

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The police started shooting in, they started shooting tear gas into the property. There

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was allegations that Move was in the basement shooting out.

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After a short period of shooting, Officer James Ramp was found fatally wounded. After

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exiting the house, all twelve Move adults were arrested and the eleven Move children

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in the house were taken away from their parents by the police.

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Little by little, I think, women came out first, women and babies. But then I see Chuckie

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Africa comes out and he's shot, he's shot in his shoulder. And I'm rushing to go to

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him as a cop takes a gun and puts it in his head and pulls back to Hampton. I grab it

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and says, whoa, whoa, what are you doing here? Right?

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There had been much concern on the part of many people that the police would make a violent

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assault on the Move members. As it turned out, the police acted with precision and restraint.

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Unfortunately for the police, the beating of Delbert Africa was caught on camera.

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I went to exit the basement after a cop stuck his gun in the window and it was plainly seen

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on the native police videotape. And he told me, bring your black ass out here. I said,

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I'm going out the front. Come out this way, I'll blow your damn head off. Boom. Obviously,

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I came out that way. And the next thing I remember was being dragged across Pearl Street

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by my hair by some cop. I don't know who. And then when they dragged me, got me up on

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the curb, then a bunch of them just started kicking.

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Geist, Mulvihill, and Zagami were all brought up on charges of police brutality a few years

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later, but Judge Stanley Kubaki dismissed the case.

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Only two days ago, three of the officers charged in the beating surrendered to assault charges.

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That sparked a protest by 500 fellow officers pointing out they also wear blue.

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I wear blue. Take me too. I wear blue.

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And the head of the police union gave his thoughts on those who beat Delbert Africa.

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What they should have done is shot the goddamn bum, and then there would have been no trouble today.

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Immediately after the August 8th incident, the police claimed that Mulv fired the first

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shot from Mulv headquarters.

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But they didn't have any proof that anybody shot out of the Mulv housing, but somebody

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shot and people started shooting.

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Television news reporters Richard Maloney and Larry Rosen claimed that they recalled hearing

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a shot down the opposite side of the street.

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It was my recollection that the shot came from behind because when the shot was fired,

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everybody turned this way.

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And so they turned their focus away from the windows where the armed movement members were,

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the basement windows where the armed movement members were.

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A number of independent observers, those with the police as well as those not with the police,

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and journalists and others have contended that the first shot came from behind the

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assembled police officers and not, and not out of the basement of the Mulv compound.

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The August 8th newspaper, this was like not even hours after the police attack on Mulv

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and Mulv people being arrested.

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Front page of the Philadelphia Daily News, oh my God, they shot a cop.

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Who shot a cop?

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You know, I mean, there had been no trial, Mulv people hadn't even been processed on charges yet.

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And the news media on the front page of the newspaper had them tried and convicted.

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Oh my God, they shot a cop.

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At every step of the way, including the final act today, the police used commendable restraint

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and it was done for many reasons.

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On May 8th, 1980, after 67 days of trial, Judge Edwin Malmed found Jeanine, Janet, Debbie,

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Merle, Chuck, Delbert, Mike, Edward and Phil Africa guilty of third degree murder, conspiracy

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and multiple counts of attempted murder and aggravated assault.

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They are now known as the Mulv Nine.

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Each defendant received a sentence of 30 to 100 years.

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Look at this case and the facts in this case.

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There's no evidence that there was a conspiracy to kill the cop, to kill the police officer.

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There was no evidence of that.

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The evidence that was put on at trial was that there were individuals seen at the window with weapons,

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firing those weapons.

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That's what the police officers testified to.

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And they identified those individuals.

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However, the whole theory of the prosecution was that there was a conspiracy.

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And again, it goes back to that original bizarre theory, which is that there was a conspiracy

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that began 16, 15, 18 months before and traveled all the way through based on words that were

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allegedly set on a porch by moot members about what they would do to protect themselves.

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And as a consequence, the judge bought into that theory.

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So his position was you're going to trial as a group, you're going to get convicted as a group,

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you're going to be sentenced as a group.

24:38.800 --> 24:44.800
Essentially ignoring all the important constitutional safeguards that each individual should be tried

24:44.800 --> 24:47.800
on the facts as it applies to each individual.

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And each individual should be sentenced based on individual sentencing factors and not sentenced

24:52.800 --> 24:58.800
as a group based on association or based on this ridiculous notion of conspiracy.

24:58.800 --> 25:03.800
The testimony said, for example, that the bullet came in the left side and went across the body

25:03.800 --> 25:05.800
to the right and down.

25:05.800 --> 25:08.800
The report said it comes in the right side and goes up.

25:08.800 --> 25:16.800
So you got a big problem with the authenticity and thus validity of the medical examiner's report.

25:16.800 --> 25:23.800
The prosecutor took out a pencil and erased items in the report that he did, Mike, and wrote it in

25:23.800 --> 25:25.800
right there in open court.

25:25.800 --> 25:27.800
Now MOVE is objecting, you know, objection, objection.

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And the judge would say sit down, shut up, you know, and allowed the guy to do that.

25:33.800 --> 25:40.800
When the nine MOVE members were convicted of third degree murder and sentenced to 30 to 100 years of

25:40.800 --> 25:47.800
peace, several days after that, Judge Edwin Malmert was a guest on a local talk station.

25:47.800 --> 25:51.800
He was asked by a caller, who killed James Rann?

25:51.800 --> 25:55.800
Malmert's response was, I have absolutely no idea.

25:55.800 --> 25:57.800
I know what his response was.

25:57.800 --> 25:59.800
I know what the question was because I was that caller.

25:59.800 --> 26:01.800
The judge's comment is telling.

26:01.800 --> 26:05.800
The comment that you're referring to has been referred to frequently.

26:05.800 --> 26:12.800
And I think his point was they didn't prove to me that in fact any one of those individuals committed the crime.

26:12.800 --> 26:14.800
So I convicted them all as a group.

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The only way he could have done that was based on that prosecution theory of conspiracy, which was a fiction,

26:21.800 --> 26:24.800
I mean, absolute fiction and one that was not supported in the law.

26:24.800 --> 26:33.800
After arresting my sisters and brothers, city officials completely demolished MOVE headquarters.

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The scene of the crime, the place where MOVE people were supposed to have shot this cop to death from.

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Now if you destroy the evidence, the scene of the crime, how can you then proceed with prosecuting somebody?

26:48.800 --> 26:51.800
They destroyed the whole crime scene.

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The entire crime scene, the house, the tree where they said the first bullet went into,

26:56.800 --> 27:00.800
the bullet that came out, the cops, I mean everything.

27:00.800 --> 27:07.800
Rizzo and his people didn't want the evidence that he knocked down the tree, knocked down the house and everything.

27:07.800 --> 27:12.800
And that was unusual because you should have an investigation to come in because we were able to see the trees

27:12.800 --> 27:17.800
and see the marks of bullets ricocheted off the building.

27:17.800 --> 27:25.800
Essentially I think what I was witness to was after the MOVE members were taken away, the bulldozing,

27:25.800 --> 27:31.800
which was very astonishing to me that they could do something like that.

27:31.800 --> 27:40.800
How do nine people get charged with and convicted of murder, of murdering one cop with one bullet?

27:40.800 --> 27:51.800
You know, they cannot even and have not even identified one person as firing a gun that killed Policeman James Rant,

27:51.800 --> 28:01.800
let alone nine. How do you keep nine people in prison for 100 years each for a crime that you can't prove that any one of the nine did?

28:04.800 --> 28:11.800
After the trial of the MOVE nine, a former MOVE member claimed to government officials that he had proof

28:11.800 --> 28:19.800
that MOVE members living in Rochester, New York were running a gun and bomb making scheme.

28:19.800 --> 28:32.800
A supporter named Don Grassy, he was weak for the authorities and what he did was he turned like government witness

28:32.800 --> 28:40.800
and they conjured up a lot of false information.

28:40.800 --> 28:48.800
Many MOVE members were arrested in Rochester, but only John Africa and Alfonso Africa were brought up on charges.

28:48.800 --> 28:54.800
A trial called John Africa versus the system then took place in Philadelphia.

28:54.800 --> 29:02.800
After numerous days of trial, a jury of 12 found John Africa and Alfonso Africa not guilty.

29:02.800 --> 29:19.800
John Africa woke up, wiped his eyes and he began a closing argument that was so profound, so clear and so true

29:19.800 --> 29:25.800
that it rocked everybody in that courtroom. Juries had tears in their eyes.

29:25.800 --> 29:33.800
When they got the verdict, they read it out real triumphantly like, not guilty, Your Honor.

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And then it was repeated over and over again like, not guilty.

29:40.800 --> 29:48.800
Like real, I mean a strong statement they was making.

29:48.800 --> 29:58.800
After the trial of the MOVE 9 and John Africa versus the system, several MOVE members moved to a row house

29:58.800 --> 30:07.800
on 6221 Osage Avenue in West Philadelphia. Here MOVE kept up their work schedule,

30:07.800 --> 30:12.800
but their main focus became the search for justice of the MOVE 9.

30:12.800 --> 30:20.800
By the end of 1983, government officials on all levels had proved ineffective and unwilling to take any action

30:20.800 --> 30:27.800
in MOVE's struggle for the MOVE 9. The media at this point ignored the issue altogether.

30:27.800 --> 30:35.800
On December 25, 1983, MOVE ended the media blackout by setting up a loudspeaker on their house

30:35.800 --> 30:39.800
and urged neighbors to take action for the MOVE 9.

30:39.800 --> 30:46.800
Neighbors of MOVE complained about MOVE talking on a loudspeaker at all hours of the day and using profanity.

30:46.800 --> 30:53.800
Some neighbors also complained of foul smells coming from MOVE headquarters and stray animals under the care of MOVE.

30:53.800 --> 31:01.800
The fact is, if every neighbor on the block complained about MOVE, since when did this government care about

31:01.800 --> 31:06.800
black people complaining about their neighbors? Since when?

31:06.800 --> 31:10.800
When did the FBI start getting involved in neighborhood disputes?

31:10.800 --> 31:15.800
Aware that the city would indeed try to silence MOVE's protest, MOVE began fortifying their house

31:15.800 --> 31:21.800
in preparation for another confrontation like the one on August 8, 1978.

31:21.800 --> 31:28.800
On May 11, 1985, Judge Lynn Abraham signed arrest warrants for Ramona, Conrad, Frank and Teresa, Africa,

31:28.800 --> 31:32.800
on charges of disorderly conduct and terrorist threats.

31:32.800 --> 31:38.800
I had talked to, at that time now you have Mayor Goode, Rizzo is gone and you have Mayor Goode,

31:38.800 --> 31:48.800
and I talked to him about the possibility of going in to see if there's any way we could not have this repeat of 78.

31:48.800 --> 31:52.800
And he said, no, we got it under control.

31:52.800 --> 31:54.800
That's all right.

31:54.800 --> 32:06.800
On Monday, May 13, 1985, police and firemen launched a full-scale military attack on the MOVE row house.

32:06.800 --> 32:17.800
In a 90-minute period, the police department of Philadelphia fired 10,000 rounds of ammunition

32:17.800 --> 32:28.800
of all types of weaponry from.38 caliber revolvers all the way up to M60 machine guns,

32:28.800 --> 32:33.800
which were big 30 caliber military machine guns.

32:33.800 --> 32:37.800
They had an anti-tank gun, they didn't use it.

32:37.800 --> 32:44.800
M16s, sniper rifles, why would they have sniper rifles?

32:44.800 --> 32:51.800
Why would they have telescopic sniper rifles with silencers on them?

32:51.800 --> 32:55.800
The explanation that was subsequently given in public is that we had sniper rifles

32:55.800 --> 33:03.800
because we wanted to silently shoot out the street lights such that it would be a dark scene.

33:03.800 --> 33:08.800
During the police attack on the MOVE household, police flooded the area with tear gas

33:08.800 --> 33:12.800
and shot over 10,000 rounds of ammunition at the MOVE house.

33:12.800 --> 33:16.800
When these tactics failed to bring MOVE out of their house, a helicopter was brought in

33:16.800 --> 33:19.800
which dropped a bomb on the MOVE house.

33:19.800 --> 33:25.800
The bomb started a fire, which ended up burning 60 houses to the ground.

33:25.800 --> 33:34.800
We just reported that Police Commissioner Gregory Sambor said that he ordered the so-called concussion bomb to secure the building.

33:34.800 --> 33:39.800
Could you explain exactly what that means and what Sambor intended to do?

33:39.800 --> 33:41.800
What does that word secure mean exactly?

33:41.800 --> 33:46.800
I think that you would probably have to ask him that question to get a full explanation.

33:46.800 --> 33:51.800
My understanding about what he wanted to do was to remove the bunker from the top of the house.

33:51.800 --> 34:00.800
There was a tremendous amount of concern that the bunker was constructed in a way that would prevent the officers from entering the building

34:00.800 --> 34:05.800
because there was always the possibility of someone hiding out in there and shooting.

34:05.800 --> 34:13.800
So there was an attempt all day long, first with water, then with other objects, to try and remove the bunker.

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And apparently the decision was made to try and explode it off in some way.

34:20.800 --> 34:27.800
See, so the explanations and the common sense conclusion makes no sense.

34:27.800 --> 34:34.800
So what makes more sense is that they wanted to drop a bomb on that house and hurt those folks,

34:34.800 --> 34:38.800
including the kids in the house, that they knew were in the house.

34:38.800 --> 34:43.800
But the police commissioner says, I consider them combatants.

34:43.800 --> 34:50.800
I'm referring to 1985. I was talking to a woman who actually I won't identify but who is a lifelong Philadelphian.

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And I, once a friend of mine at that time, that period, and I said that the houses on Osage Street are afire.

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I just found out and she said, good.

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So there's a lot of racial hatred in this country, in this city, in this country that we have never addressed.

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It's the sin of America.

35:17.800 --> 35:26.800
We had a bomb dropped on us. We had thousands of rounds of bullets, 10,000 rounds of bullets fired on us.

35:26.800 --> 35:30.800
We were deluged with water. We were tear gassed.

35:30.800 --> 35:36.800
The bomb ignited a fire that the fire department stood there and refused to put out

35:36.800 --> 35:41.800
after putting water on our house for hours all that morning.

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And all of that, and we're violent?

35:47.800 --> 35:50.800
Could you tell us anything more than we already know about the number of casualties,

35:50.800 --> 35:54.800
the number of people who are still at large with guns? What is the latest status on this?

35:54.800 --> 35:59.800
We don't have any indication that anyone lost their life.

35:59.800 --> 36:04.800
That does not mean that we did not, in fact, end up with any loss of life.

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But I don't know of anyone at this point.

36:07.800 --> 36:14.800
Fire experts that were hired by the MOVE commission said that temperatures in the house reached 2,000 degrees.

36:14.800 --> 36:20.800
You melt steel at 2,000 degrees, you know, in a steel mill.

36:20.800 --> 36:24.800
The MOVE members tried to escape.

36:24.800 --> 36:29.800
They were driven back into the house by police gunfire.

36:29.800 --> 36:40.800
So maybe that's what the silenced sniper rifles, you know, sniper rifles with silencers on them were for.

36:40.800 --> 36:44.800
The police claimed that they never shot anybody, that they never drove anybody back in.

36:44.800 --> 36:49.800
A couple of police officers broke ranks and said that they did. They were driven out of the police department.

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The witnesses said that they did. They were ignored.

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The lone surviving MOVE member, Ramona Africa, said that they were shot at, as well as the kid.

36:59.800 --> 37:01.800
But they were dismissed.

37:01.800 --> 37:09.800
The medical examiner found in the charred bones that they pulled out of the MOVE house,

37:09.800 --> 37:13.800
12-gauge buckshot from police shotguns.

37:13.800 --> 37:20.800
Now, if MOVE members were inside the house, they could never have been shot with buckshot.

37:20.800 --> 37:27.800
Some people came out of the house, were shot, and then back into the house and were subsequently burned up.

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The fire went out of control by the time they decided to start fighting the fire.

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The whole block was consumed.

37:34.800 --> 37:39.800
Within hours, 61 homes were totally destroyed.

37:39.800 --> 37:44.800
Eleven people in the MOVE house were killed, including five children.

37:44.800 --> 37:53.800
And that's how May 13, 1985 ended in a holocaust, in a catastrophe.

37:53.800 --> 38:07.800
And not a single police officer, police department official, fire department official, or city official ever faced criminal charges for that.

38:07.800 --> 38:14.800
A bolt-action rifle, two shotguns, and two revolvers were the only weapons found in the ashes of the MOVE house.

38:14.800 --> 38:19.800
You know, they murdered our children. You know, Janine and Phil had two sons that were murdered.

38:19.800 --> 38:23.800
Consuela had two daughters that were murdered. Janet and Delbert had two daughters that were murdered.

38:23.800 --> 38:25.800
You know, Sue had her son murdered.

38:25.800 --> 38:29.800
Because of May 13, 1985, I mean, this city was exposed terribly.

38:29.800 --> 38:33.800
I mean, how much more brutal can you get than having it in the newspaper,

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which is where I read about my son's death, that a police officer saw a pair of blue eyes staring up at him.

38:40.800 --> 38:52.800
I mean, they deliberately, deliberately set our kids afire, you know, ablaze, burnt them alive, gave them no avenue of escape,

38:52.800 --> 38:55.800
and when they tried to escape, shot them down.

38:55.800 --> 39:00.800
After the bombing, Ramona Africa was sentenced to seven years with conspiracy to riot.

39:00.800 --> 39:07.800
At Ramona's trial, Lieutenant Frank Powell, who dropped the bomb, and Officer William Klein, who assembled it, pleaded a fifth.

39:07.800 --> 39:15.800
Many investigations were done on the May 13, 1985 bombing of MOVE, but no indictments were ever made.

39:15.800 --> 39:22.800
Before the incident was swept under the rug of Philadelphia's history forever, Ramona Africa filed a civil suit against the city,

39:22.800 --> 39:28.800
and MOVE ended up receiving some compensation for the May 13 catastrophe.

39:28.800 --> 39:41.800
On March 13, 1998, MOVE was devastated to find that their sister, Merle Africa, had died at the State Correctional Institution in Cambridge Springs, Pennsylvania.

39:41.800 --> 39:47.800
The death came as a shock to MOVE, because the last they knew, Merle was in good health.

39:47.800 --> 40:11.800
MOVE feels to this day that the death of Merle Africa is very suspicious.

40:11.800 --> 40:24.800
MOVE's major focus these days is finding justice for the MOVE Nine and MOVE supporter, Lumia Abu Jamal, who are all currently incarcerated in Pennsylvania prison system.

40:24.800 --> 40:31.800
Mike Africa from the MOVE organization, and I want to point out, I got nine MOVE people sitting in prison right now,

40:31.800 --> 40:35.800
doing 30 to 100 years for a crime they didn't commit, including my mother and my father.

40:35.800 --> 40:40.800
We got serious work to do. We ain't out here talking just to be talking. We're putting out information.

40:40.800 --> 40:43.800
What was the protest originally about? What were you protesting for?

40:43.800 --> 41:11.800
I was protesting for releasing my mother and my father, and Lumia Abu Jamal, and Leonard Peltier, and Russell Schultz, and all the rest of the political prisoners.

41:13.800 --> 41:18.800
What is the MOVE organization?

41:18.800 --> 41:29.800
The MOVE organization is a revolutionary organization, and our interpretation of revolution is not the system's interpretation of revolution.

41:29.800 --> 41:40.800
When MOVE speaks of revolution, we're speaking about freedom and equality for all life, all living beings.

41:40.800 --> 41:50.800
You see, this system that we live under has papers called the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution.

41:50.800 --> 42:02.800
They have the words that say, we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights.

42:02.800 --> 42:21.800
But that's all it is, is words. When they say in the Constitution, you know, that you have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to protest, freedom of association, freedom of the press, all of these freedoms, it is just words.

42:21.800 --> 42:30.800
When MOVE talks about the principle of freedom, we mean it. We live it. We fight for it.

42:30.800 --> 42:54.800
And as Dave told you, in the very early days of MOVE, our founder, John Africa, brought people together from all different races, social and economic backgrounds, various religions, brought us together and made us a family.

42:54.800 --> 43:15.800
And John Africa cemented the bond of family in MOVE with one single principle, respect for all of life and to defend all of life against enslavement, mistreatment and abuse, inequality.

43:15.800 --> 43:35.800
And that is what MOVE believes in. That's the foundation of our belief. And contrary to this system's image of MOVE, you know, the way they portray MOVE, our first demonstrations were at the Philadelphia Zoo.

43:35.800 --> 43:47.800
Was at the Barnum and Bailey Circus at Furriers where we demonstrated against the enslavement of animal life.

43:47.800 --> 44:02.800
You know, when this system imprisons and engages humans, they say they do it because these people are criminals. They committed a crime.

44:02.800 --> 44:15.800
But what crime has the bears, the tigers, the lions, etc., committed to deserve life in prison? What crime did they commit?

44:15.800 --> 44:43.800
How can a furrier substantiate clubbing baby seals to death, slaughtering mink, seals, foxes, you know, rabbits, in masks, skinning them of their coats and selling them to people so that people can hallucinate that the seal's fur looks better on our back than it does on the seal that the God of Life put it on?

44:43.800 --> 44:57.800
You know, these are the confrontations MOVE had with this system. And we put out simple, clear information based on our belief to substantiate our position.

44:57.800 --> 45:23.800
We had demonstrations against boarding homes for the elderly where elderly people were being physically and emotionally abused, where their social security checks were all but stolen from them, where the boarding homes that they were living in were virtual fire traps and elderly people were being burned alive regularly.

45:23.800 --> 45:51.800
We protested these things. We demonstrated at big conferences for chemical companies like DuPont or Dow Chemical and confronted them about poisoning our environment because that air and the water and the earth that feeds us is just as alive as any living being you see walking around.

45:51.800 --> 46:07.800
And we can't live without it. Can't live without the air, the water, the earth that feeds all life. And we can't live with the poison that is put in the air, the water that feeds all life.

46:07.800 --> 46:27.800
Our lungs are coordinated to breathe clean air, pure air, the way God intended. The same with the water. We cannot eat and be healthy with food that comes through earth that has been poisoned with toxic waste.

46:27.800 --> 46:54.800
You know, these are the things that MOVE confronts in this system. And because MOVE people demand that, you know, we have clean air to breathe, that animals are not abused and imprisoned and enslaved, you know, because we demand that the earth that feeds all life not be poisoned.

46:54.800 --> 47:11.800
This system feels threatened by MOVE because not only do we say it, you know, but we back it up. You know, we explain our position and they can't justify their position. And they can't shut us up. They can't stop us.

47:11.800 --> 47:36.800
You know, initially when MOVE started confronting this system about what it's doing to all of life, they realized that they had a problem with MOVE. And the first thing they did was approached us with money, you know, offering us funding, you know, offered to set us up in an office to make our work easier.

47:36.800 --> 47:51.800
But we knew what that was. We knew what was behind it. And we made it clear that MOVE cannot be bribed, cannot be bought. You know, they cannot co-opt us and get us to abandon what we know to be right.

47:51.800 --> 48:09.800
So when they saw that we couldn't be bribed and bought off, that's when the brutality and attempted intimidation started. When we would go to set up a peaceful demonstration, the cops would come and tell us that we had to pack up and leave.

48:09.800 --> 48:34.800
We had to cease and desist. And we would not just accept that. We questioned them. We were like, what are you talking about? Isn't this America where you tell the world that in America, you know, American citizens have the right of freedom of speech, you know, freedom to protest?

48:34.800 --> 48:49.800
You know, isn't that what you tell the world? What are you talking about? Does the Constitution say, accept the MOVE organization? What's going on here? And we wouldn't just go away. That's when the beating started, the brutality started.

48:49.800 --> 49:05.800
The cops would beat our men, our brothers, bloody into broken limbs and unconsciousness. They would beat the women the same. They beat pregnant MOVE women, beat, stomp, kick them into miscarriage.

49:05.800 --> 49:24.800
You know, our children were attacked, thrown over bannisters. I mean, you know, the cops are this system's first line of offense. I won't even say defense, offense. And I mean, it was like open season on MOVE people.

49:24.800 --> 49:39.800
And MOVE people made our position clear. You know, I mean, there were like seven MOVE babies, you know, murdered into miscarriage by the system's cops.

49:39.800 --> 50:00.800
My sister Sue Africa, you know, was like six months pregnant and was beat and brutalized in a courtroom right in front of the judge. And he did nothing. My sister Rhonda Africa was eight months pregnant and beat, you know, horribly by cops.

50:00.800 --> 50:18.800
And her baby was born shortly after that with black and blue marks on him. Now you know that there is something wrong any time a baby can be victimized by police brutality before he's even born.

50:18.800 --> 50:25.800
Rhonda's baby was born with black and blue marks on him and died shortly after that.

50:25.800 --> 50:39.800
My sister Alberta Africa was several months pregnant when she was arrested at a peaceful demonstration at the zoo. And she made it clear repeatedly that she was pregnant.

50:39.800 --> 51:07.800
And when they took her to the police administration building and started processing her, four big, tall, beefy male cops came and drug her out of the cell, held her on the floor with her arms and legs spread eagle, while a black woman cop kicked her repeatedly in the stomach and the vagina until she suffered a miscarriage.

51:07.800 --> 51:24.800
My sister Janine Africa was standing outside of Move headquarters with other Move people, welcoming some of our family home from jail that had been jailed on contempt of court charges and had just been released.

51:24.800 --> 51:36.800
And our family was welcoming them home. Cops came from three different districts. You only live in one police district. Cops came from three different districts talking about they got a call that there was a

51:36.800 --> 51:46.800
disturbance of the peace, a fight or whatever. And my family told them there's no fight. There's no disturbance. We're just welcoming our family home, you know, and that's it.

51:46.800 --> 52:10.800
Well, they went crazy and attacked Move people. And in attacking Move people, they threw my sister Janine Africa, who was holding her three week old baby, threw her down to the ground, knocking her baby from her arms, trampled over them to get at other Move people, and trampled over the baby and crushed his head.

52:10.800 --> 52:26.800
You know, and the baby was killed. This is the kind of brutality and viciousness that Move people were victimized by. And Move said, look, we are a peaceful people.

52:26.800 --> 52:44.800
We are uncompromisingly opposed to violence, but we are neither stupid nor confused. We understand the instinct of self-defense. It's a God-given instinct.

52:44.800 --> 52:58.800
There is not a species of life on the face of this earth that does not defend itself when attacked and whatever means that it can. And we are no different.

52:58.800 --> 53:22.800
You know, if you are defending yourself, you are not violent. There is no violence in defending yourself. But if you are attacked and you refuse to defend yourself and allow yourself to be, you know, brutalized and attacked, then you are encouraging violence.

53:22.800 --> 53:37.800
You are endorsing it and you are doing nothing to stop it. That is masochistic. That is ultimately suicidal. And Move is neither masochistic nor suicidal.

53:37.800 --> 53:56.800
If, you know, told the cops, if you continue to attack us, we will defend ourselves, our family, our babies. We are not going to sit back and allow you to beat and brutalize us and murder our babies without defending ourselves.

53:56.800 --> 54:19.800
Well, you know, that didn't sit too well with this system, but they backed off of us. You know, they didn't attack us anymore. What they did was surrounded our home and watched us for like nine months or so from May of 1977 through March of 1978.

54:19.800 --> 54:33.800
And when we were not intimidated or broke down, Mayor Rizzo, who was the mayor of Philadelphia at the time, initiated a starvation blockade around Move. They cut off our water.

54:33.800 --> 54:46.800
They refused to allow anybody to bring water or food or anything to us. They stopped the mail. I mean, they didn't pick up the trash. I mean, they just coordinate that area off.

54:46.800 --> 54:59.800
People who lived in the area, the three block radius, had to show ID to get into their own home, you know, in their own street. And Move stood firm.

54:59.800 --> 55:12.800
And that put more pressure on the system because, you know, there was all this news coverage about the starvation blockade of, you know, women and children, et cetera. And it made the city look bad.

55:12.800 --> 55:25.800
So they had to back off. And finally, they released our, you know, family that was in prison. And they claimed they were dropping all the charges, you know, on Move people.

55:25.800 --> 55:41.800
But they wanted us to move out of our house. And they misused the issue of housing code violations that Dave was talking about, like not having screens in the window, ridiculous things like that.

55:41.800 --> 56:02.800
As if, I mean, let's be real about this, as if officials in Philadelphia or Pennsylvania or even in Washington really care about poor people, especially people of color, black people, living in homes that have housing code violations.

56:02.800 --> 56:28.800
I used to work in housing. That was one of my first jobs out of college. And I called the Department of License and Inspection so many times on behalf of tenants who in the middle of the winter, their landlords would, you know, shut off the heat or they didn't have any hot water or their roof was falling in on them.

56:28.800 --> 56:43.800
Did the Department of License and Inspection care? Did they ever do anything to force landlords to, you know, fix up their houses because they were in violation? No. No, they didn't.

56:43.800 --> 56:58.800
But all of a sudden when it comes to Move, because we don't have screens in our windows or whatever, it's such a big issue, such a problem that we have to move out of our house because it's not safe. No, no, no, no, no, no.

56:58.800 --> 57:12.800
Obviously it was more to it than that. And when Move would not just leave our house and move out of it, they used that or misused it as an excuse to send hundreds of customers.

57:12.800 --> 57:25.800
Hundreds of cops out to our home. Now, since when do hundreds of cops execute an eviction? And why should we be evicted from our own home?

57:25.800 --> 57:42.800
You know, because we don't have screens in the window. No, you know, it was just the city's attempt to, you know, really to attack Move and kill Move because they had nothing to do with getting Move people out of that house.

57:42.800 --> 58:04.800
And to prove it, the warrants were issued on August 1st of 1978. The police attack occurred on August 8th. But on August 5th, because officials knew that all Move people were not in that house, some Move people had went on an activity in Richmond, Virginia.

58:04.800 --> 58:14.800
Several of our women with, you know, some of the children, not the babies, not the breastfeeding babies, but older children, went to Richmond, Virginia.

58:14.800 --> 58:29.800
Some of our other family members went to Rochester, New York, and they knew that people had left the house. But what did they do? Claim that the issue was Move people not leaving our home.

58:29.800 --> 58:44.800
But meanwhile, on August 5th, cops went down to Richmond, Virginia, busted in our home there, arrested our two sisters, you know, and took our children, who we had to fight to get back, and we did.

58:44.800 --> 58:55.800
But they went down there and arrested them and brought them back to Philadelphia. Now, I thought the issue was Move people leaving Move headquarters.

58:55.800 --> 59:05.800
Obviously, that wasn't the issue, or they would not have gone to a whole other state and brought Move people back to Philadelphia.

59:05.800 --> 59:21.800
Anyway, that was on August 5th. On August 8th, hundreds of cops were sent out to our home armed for war. You know, the fire department was sent there to act in cahoots with the police department.

59:21.800 --> 59:31.800
And they flooded our house with, you know, thousands and thousands of gallons of water, like six feet of water, filled our basement.

59:31.800 --> 59:39.800
Then they filled our home with tear gas, filled the basement with tear gas, because they knew that's where all Move people were.

59:39.800 --> 59:52.800
They had sent three teams of cops into the house and went from the third floor to the second floor to the first floor and determined that everybody was in the basement.

59:52.800 --> 01:00:14.800
Then one cop testified that you couldn't really see good in the basement because of the tear gas, you know, and it was dark in there, but that he and several other cops emptied their guns, reloaded, and emptied them again in corners where they could hear babies crying.

01:00:14.800 --> 01:00:24.800
They couldn't see good, but you know, they heard babies crying, and that's where they emptied their guns, reloaded, and emptied them again.

01:00:24.800 --> 01:00:44.800
In their furor to kill Move people, and that's what it was, it was not about an arrest, they came out there to exterminate Move people. And in their haste to do that, they ended up killing one of their own brother cops.

01:00:44.800 --> 01:00:54.800
And I know that people can, you know, be skeptical of this and say, well, yeah, you know, I guess you would say that that's your family, blah, blah, blah.

01:00:54.800 --> 01:01:01.800
But understand something. Move people did not invent the term friendly fire.

01:01:01.800 --> 01:01:19.800
We did not invent that term. This system invented that term to describe a situation which must have happened and does happen fairly frequently, you know, for them to even put a name to it.

01:01:19.800 --> 01:01:31.800
And it's, you know, describing a situation where in a conflict, one side ends up injuring or killing one of their allies, you know.

01:01:31.800 --> 01:01:49.800
It happened in the Iraq war with this football player who, you know, gave up his career in football and went over to Iraq to fight and got killed. And initially the government acted like, you know, he was killed by Iraqis.

01:01:49.800 --> 01:02:04.800
But meanwhile, it came out that he was killed by friendly fire, you know, from Americans. So Move did not invent this term. You know, we did not invent that scenario.

01:02:04.800 --> 01:02:21.800
You know, this is something that happens. And the trajectory of the bullet, the way this cop was shot in the base of the net with the bullet traveling downward indicates clearly that Move could not possibly.

01:02:21.800 --> 01:02:32.800
It was physically impossible for Move to have shot and killed this cop. And just like I know it, they know it. Officials know it.

01:02:32.800 --> 01:02:52.800
But see, my family is not in prison for the accusation of murder, for real. They are in prison for being committed Move members and for surviving, surviving that August 8, 1978 police attack on Move.

01:02:52.800 --> 01:03:03.800
That is why they are in prison. These officials know, know clearly, know better than we do that Move did not kill that cop.

01:03:03.800 --> 01:03:18.800
But meanwhile, they arrested my family, known as the Move Nine, charged them all with murder. Now, how do nine people fire one bullet from one gun and kill somebody?

01:03:18.800 --> 01:03:37.800
If they said one of the Move Nine, Phil, Debbie, Muriel, Janine, whoever, any one of the Move Nine is responsible for killing this officer and the other eight are guilty by conspiracy, that might be a little understandable.

01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:58.800
But they are saying they don't know who killed that cop. The judge who sat on the trial, sat throughout the whole trial, at the end of the trial, after he had sentenced nine of my family members to 30 year minimums and 100 year sentences each,

01:03:58.800 --> 01:04:12.800
100 year maximum sentences each, said publicly on a radio talk show a few days after sentencing my family that he didn't have the faintest idea who killed that cop.

01:04:12.800 --> 01:04:38.800
But yet my family sits in prison, convicted of it, and have sat in prison 29, going on 30 years for this murder. They arrested my family and within hours of arresting my family, the city of Philadelphia sent a demolition team out to our home and completely demolished it.

01:04:38.800 --> 01:04:47.800
I mean knocked it down, knocked the trees down that were in our yard in front of the house, I mean demolished everything.

01:04:47.800 --> 01:05:02.800
Now understand, this was evidence, this was the scene of a crime. They accused my family of shooting and killing a cop from that house.

01:05:02.800 --> 01:05:25.800
Now cops are trained to preserve evidence, not destroy it. There is no way in the world any of you can believe that if they really thought MOVE people killed a cop, that they wouldn't have preserved every bit of evidence they could get their hands on to prove that.

01:05:25.800 --> 01:05:41.800
They would not be destroying evidence, they would not be destroying the scene of the crime. Destroying evidence is a crime, you know, but they did it anyway.

01:05:41.800 --> 01:05:56.800
Why would they do that if they really believed that MOVE people killed a cop? They wouldn't. Nevertheless, my family sits in prison for this bogus accusation.

01:05:56.800 --> 01:06:11.800
After our family was sentenced, you know, we didn't go crazy. We put out information about their innocence and the farce of a trial that they went through.

01:06:11.800 --> 01:06:27.800
We filed the necessary appeals for them, but we also took to the streets. John Africa, MOVE's founder, initiated a newspaper called First Day where, you know, we could get information out to people.

01:06:27.800 --> 01:06:53.800
We were out in the streets all the time talking to people about this situation, getting them to question how nine people can be convicted of shooting one cop with one bullet from one gun, how they could destroy the evidence, how the judge could say, you know, he didn't have any idea, the famous idea, who killed that cop and yet my family sits in prison for it.

01:06:53.800 --> 01:07:03.800
And people did start questioning it. We got them to call officials and demand some answers, and it was becoming more and more of an issue.

01:07:03.800 --> 01:07:19.800
And officials were feeling some heat behind this because they could not answer people's questions, not without indicting themselves and opening a whole new can of worms that they didn't want to open.

01:07:19.800 --> 01:07:35.800
So feeling the kind of heat that they were feeling from these questions, they decided that they needed to do something to relieve the pressure to stop what was going on.

01:07:35.800 --> 01:07:53.800
And they only had two options. I mean, either do the right thing and do whatever you got to do to release innocent MOVE people from prison, or the only other option was to try to shut us up, stop us from calling so much attention to it.

01:07:53.800 --> 01:08:14.800
Well, they chose the latter. And that is what the May 13th, 1985 bombing of MOVE was about. It was their attempt to silence our righteous and unrelenting fight for the release of our innocent family members.

01:08:14.800 --> 01:08:27.800
Officials through the media tried to convince people that the whole thing happened, May 13th of 1985, because some neighbors had some complaints about MOVE.

01:08:27.800 --> 01:08:40.800
Now, I'm sure some neighbors did have complaints about MOVE. I can't think of one neighborhood in this entire country where some neighbors don't have complaints about some other neighbor.

01:08:40.800 --> 01:08:51.800
But are you telling me that the solution to a neighborhood dispute is to bomb the neighborhood and burn it down and burn babies and adults and animals alive?

01:08:51.800 --> 01:09:07.800
That's the solution to a neighborhood dispute? You know? And again, I ask the question, since when did this government start caring about black people complaining about their neighbors?

01:09:07.800 --> 01:09:17.800
When did that become a big issue with this government? You know? They don't care about white people complaining about their neighbors or anything else.

01:09:17.800 --> 01:09:27.800
I mean, it's impossible to get a good response from government when you have a complaint. And everybody knows it.

01:09:27.800 --> 01:09:38.800
But they want people to believe that a handful of black people complained about their MOVE neighbors and got that kind of response.

01:09:38.800 --> 01:09:55.800
In May of 1985, got the local, the state, and the federal government involved because they were so concerned about these neighbors and their complaints that they dropped a bomb and allowed a fire to burn and burn down the whole neighborhood.

01:09:55.800 --> 01:10:03.800
I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous and it's an insult to any thinking person's intelligence.

01:10:03.800 --> 01:10:12.800
May 13th was about our unrelenting fight for the release of our family, our innocent family members.

01:10:12.800 --> 01:10:23.800
And they didn't care what they had to do to stop us, to shut us up, to take the pressure off. That's what May 13th was about.

01:10:23.800 --> 01:10:42.800
And when they came out to our home on Mother's Day, May 12th, Sunday, May 12th of 1985, setting up their high-powered weaponry, their intent was to kill everybody in that house.

01:10:42.800 --> 01:11:00.800
They didn't have to go and send for the C-4 explosive that they used in that bomb. They brought it out there with them, along with.50 caliber machine guns, M60 automatic rifles, sniper rifles with silencers on them.

01:11:00.800 --> 01:11:13.800
What did they need silencers for? You know, silencers are the weapon of an assassin, you know, but they had sniper rifles with silencers.

01:11:13.800 --> 01:11:23.800
This is the kind of weaponry they brought out there, you know, for a handful of people. They only had warrants for four people, four people.

01:11:23.800 --> 01:11:31.800
And this is the kind of weaponry they brought out there. And they knew that there were children and animals in that house.

01:11:31.800 --> 01:11:41.800
They knew it was people in that house that they didn't have any warrants for, you know, and even people they did have warrants for.

01:11:41.800 --> 01:11:51.800
I mean, according to this system's legal laws, you are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

01:11:51.800 --> 01:12:06.800
We had not been found guilty of anything. Yet, this is how they attacked us, came at us, you know, the same way they did in 78 because their intent was the same,

01:12:06.800 --> 01:12:18.800
except in 85 because they were so puzzled and frustrated that they had not killed MOVE people in 1978.

01:12:18.800 --> 01:12:33.800
When they came in 85, they came with the makings of a bomb because they were determined to do in 85 what they had failed to do in 1978.

01:12:33.800 --> 01:12:51.800
Ask yourself, what had MOVE done? What were we, you know, so violent about? What was it about us that caused them to come out there with all of that artillery and a bomb?

01:12:51.800 --> 01:13:00.800
What were we accused of? Rape, robbery, selling drugs, kidnapping? What? None of that. None of that.

01:13:00.800 --> 01:13:16.800
You know, disorderly conduct they charged us with in the warrants. They charged us with terroristic threats, which was absolutely ridiculous because the incident that they charged us with terroristic threats on,

01:13:16.800 --> 01:13:35.800
the cops that filed the charges against us, stood on our steps talking to us for over an hour. Now you're telling me that a police officer who feels threatened, who you threaten terroristically,

01:13:35.800 --> 01:13:48.800
is going to stand right there on your doorsteps and talk to you for over an hour? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. But these were the kinds of charges they put on us.

01:13:48.800 --> 01:14:02.800
But even if that were true, that we were, you know, guilty of terroristic threats or disorderly conduct, does that warrant the kind of firepower that they came out there with?

01:14:02.800 --> 01:14:20.800
Did that warrant dropping a bomb on us? A bomb which ignited a fire that the fire department who had aimed four deli toses that they say pump out 10,000 pounds of water pressure per minute,

01:14:20.800 --> 01:14:36.800
that's 40,000 pounds of water pressure per minute from four hoses, aimed that at us for hours and hours when there was no fire. But when they dropped that bomb and the bomb ignited a fire,

01:14:36.800 --> 01:14:51.800
they made a conscious decision that they were not going to put the fire out. They were going to let it burn. You know, since when do you know firefighters that are at the scene of a fire,

01:14:51.800 --> 01:15:08.800
knowing that there are living beings in the building, men, women, babies, animals, and they do nothing, they make a conscious decision to just let the fire burn? When has that ever happened?

01:15:08.800 --> 01:15:25.800
That's what they did May 13th of 1985. And what we're saying is they did it deliberately. And when we tried to get our children, our animals, and ourselves out of that blazing inferno,

01:15:25.800 --> 01:15:41.800
we were met with a barrage of police gunfire, deliberately aimed at us, you know, in an attempt to prevent anybody from escaping that fire and surviving that massacre.

01:15:41.800 --> 01:15:59.800
As Dave told you, myself and one little boy are the only survivors of that, you know, police attack on the Moore family. Both of us were burned pretty badly.

01:15:59.800 --> 01:16:18.800
I still bear the scars from the burns I suffered that day. And I am the only person to ever be charged with anything, convicted of anything, and to go to prison as a result of the events of that day.

01:16:18.800 --> 01:16:32.800
Five babies and six adults were burned alive that day. Nobody has yet to be held accountable in any way for that.

01:16:32.800 --> 01:16:55.800
Now, this is the system that demands your respect, your loyalty. This is the system that says that in this country, you know, in various states, that anybody who murders should be on death row and should pay for it with their lives.

01:16:55.800 --> 01:17:08.800
Not one single official is sitting in prison next to my family during 30 to 100 years for murdering their babies, my family's babies.

01:17:08.800 --> 01:17:35.800
You know, nobody, not one official, is sitting on death row next to our brother, Mumia Abu Jamal, for the accusation of murdering my family. Not eight, one. But this is the system that demands your respect, that tells you their interest is justice and equality and freedom.

01:17:35.800 --> 01:17:49.800
It's an absolute lie. It's an absolute lie. And I don't say this to turn anybody against the system. I'm saying it because it is a simple fact.

01:17:49.800 --> 01:18:08.800
And unless we deal with it, unless we face it and deal with it and work, you know, to put things right, none of us is safe. Not a one of us is safe from it. And that's the issue.

01:18:08.800 --> 01:18:23.800
That's what people are going to have to deal with. Right now, our priority in MOVE is the release of our family. Their 30-year minimum is up in August, August 8th of 2008.

01:18:23.800 --> 01:18:45.800
And they will be seeing the parole board early next year. And we are determined to put the whatever pressure is necessary to push the parole board to go ahead and release our family on parole, while still fighting to get their conviction overturned.

01:18:45.800 --> 01:18:59.800
Because even if they are paroled next year, they would be on parole for the rest of their life because they have 100-year maximum sentences. They will have done 30 if they are paroled next year.

01:18:59.800 --> 01:19:18.800
That leaves 70 years of parole, which is the rest of their life, which means that, you know, government officials will hold that over their head and anytime they felt like it or felt threatened by MOVE, they would, you know, drag them in and throw them back in jail on any little excuse.

01:19:18.800 --> 01:19:39.800
And that is not a good thing. That is not something that we're willing to just accept. So our priority right now is gaining the release of our family and also our brother, Mumia Abu-Jamal, who is innocent, who sits on death row, not because he is a murderer, because he's not,

01:19:39.800 --> 01:19:58.800
but because he dared to use his journalistic skills to expose this system, not only when it came to MOVE, but with issues across the board concerning police brutality or homelessness or, you know, judicial corruption.

01:19:58.800 --> 01:20:12.800
That is why Mumia sits in jail, because he would not compromise himself or his journalistic skills to just, you know, write things the way the system wants him to write it.

01:20:12.800 --> 01:20:23.800
He told the truth, and that's why he sits on death row. And, you know, we're working very hard to save his life, too.

01:20:23.800 --> 01:20:35.800
So this is the work that the MOVE organization has involved ourselves in for the last 35 years or so. That's the work we do externally.

01:20:35.800 --> 01:20:49.800
But I want to make it clear, too, that the MOVE organization, we are committed to putting things right. But that commitment, we understand clearly, starts first with ourselves.

01:20:49.800 --> 01:21:01.800
We have to do the work to get ourselves right, to get ourselves strong and honest and right before we can influence anybody else.

01:21:01.800 --> 01:21:14.800
And that's the work that the MOVE organization is committed to as well. You know, we have family meetings where we, you know, talk about things, not only upcoming activities or whatever,

01:21:14.800 --> 01:21:25.800
but if there is any problem, if any MOVE person is having trouble with anything, if one MOVE person sees another MOVE person having trouble with something,

01:21:25.800 --> 01:21:40.800
we have family meetings and it's brought out so that that person can get help, because we are as committed to putting ourselves right as we are coming at this system and putting things right externally.

01:21:40.800 --> 01:21:50.800
So that's the work that MOVE people are involved in and have been involved in, like I said, over 35 years now since the early 70s.

01:21:50.800 --> 01:21:59.800
And for being committed to this work, to putting things right, this system has come down on us with everything it has.

01:21:59.800 --> 01:22:15.800
Because finally, the bottom line is that those running this system have absolutely no intention, no intention of putting things right, of doing the right thing.

01:22:15.800 --> 01:22:26.800
They want to keep this system going just the way it is because they are hallucinating that it works for them and it doesn't.

01:22:26.800 --> 01:22:39.800
It is no more working for them as it is working for a poor black person in the ghetto, or a poor white person in the ghetto, or a Latino or Asian person in the ghetto,

01:22:39.800 --> 01:22:47.800
or for an indigenous person living on a reservation. This system ain't working for nobody. Nobody.

01:22:47.800 --> 01:22:59.800
They may hallucinate that it's working for them because they may have money, can live a certain lifestyle, but that doesn't stop them from getting cancer.

01:22:59.800 --> 01:23:10.800
That doesn't stop them from being alcoholics or their children from being drug addicts. It's not working for them either.

01:23:10.800 --> 01:23:20.800
But they're hallucinating that it is. And MOVE is the constant reminder to them that it's not working for them and they don't want to hear it.

01:23:20.800 --> 01:23:26.800
They don't want to hear it. But that's not going to make things any better for them.

01:23:26.800 --> 01:23:36.800
So this is the work that MOVE people have committed ourselves to, that this system will never stop us from doing.

01:23:36.800 --> 01:23:50.800
And that's why they keep coming at us. So I don't want to drag on and on and on because I'm sure that some of you may have questions or comments.

01:23:50.800 --> 01:23:56.800
And I want to give you an opportunity to ask your questions, whatever they are.

01:23:56.800 --> 01:24:06.800
So, you know, please do not hesitate to ask anything that comes to mind because, you know, we're here to answer questions.

01:24:06.800 --> 01:24:12.800
And if you want to know about MOVE, the best people to ask is MOVE.

01:24:12.800 --> 01:24:18.800
So don't pass up this opportunity to ask any questions you might have.

01:24:18.800 --> 01:24:25.800
Okay. I just want to thank you. Thank you.

01:24:25.800 --> 01:24:28.800
If the city does try to come in here and get you out, what are you going to do?

01:24:28.800 --> 01:24:29.800
We're going to do what's necessary, man.

01:24:29.800 --> 01:24:30.800
What is that?

01:24:30.800 --> 01:24:32.800
But first understand why he's coming in here.

01:24:32.800 --> 01:24:33.800
What are you going to do?

01:24:33.800 --> 01:24:34.800
We're going to do what's necessary.

01:24:34.800 --> 01:24:35.800
What is that?

01:24:35.800 --> 01:24:36.800
The strategy of giant Africa.

01:24:36.800 --> 01:24:37.800
What is that?

01:24:37.800 --> 01:24:38.800
Our only defense.

01:24:38.800 --> 01:24:39.800
What is that?

01:24:39.800 --> 01:24:41.800
The strategy of giant Africa.

01:24:41.800 --> 01:24:43.800
You aren't telling me anything. You're just saying the strategy of giant Africa.

01:24:43.800 --> 01:24:49.800
Hey, I wouldn't tell my strategy to you.

01:24:49.800 --> 01:25:00.800
Do you expect them to come in?

01:25:00.800 --> 01:25:06.800
On May 20, 1977, MOVE brandished weapons from their Powerton Village headquarters platform,

01:25:06.800 --> 01:25:12.800
saying, no longer will we be beaten or intimidated by the police without a like response.

01:25:12.800 --> 01:25:15.800
It's because we know the psychological effect that it has on these cops.

01:25:15.800 --> 01:25:16.800
Right.

01:25:16.800 --> 01:25:19.800
And that's the most important thing about their individual lives.

01:25:19.800 --> 01:25:20.800
That's why we had guns.

01:25:20.800 --> 01:25:23.800
We knew that Rizzo had to come to us if he wanted to make arrests.

01:25:23.800 --> 01:25:25.800
So guns was used to nab down the arrests.

01:25:25.800 --> 01:25:29.800
From that day on, constant police surveillance, which lasted a year,

01:25:29.800 --> 01:25:33.800
surrounded the MOVE compound, costing the city millions of dollars.

01:25:33.800 --> 01:25:39.800
MOVE sparked a significant amount of community support by speaking out on police abuse.

01:25:39.800 --> 01:25:44.800
Many demonstrations were held as hundreds of people rallied to MOVE's defense.

01:25:44.800 --> 01:25:49.800
The following year, Rizzo announced that if MOVE did not leave their headquarters,

01:25:49.800 --> 01:25:55.800
the city would erect a blockade so tight even a fly wouldn't be able to get in.

01:25:55.800 --> 01:26:00.800
On March 16, 1978, a blockade went up involving 1,000 police officers.

01:26:00.800 --> 01:26:04.800
That night, Rizzo launched a campaign urging armed whites to fight blacks

01:26:04.800 --> 01:26:07.800
for better jobs, decent housing, and a better life.

01:26:07.800 --> 01:26:12.800
The day before, he announced that he would drop his bid for a third term as mayor.

01:26:12.800 --> 01:26:16.800
During the next 55 days, residents of the barricaded area carried passbooks

01:26:16.800 --> 01:26:18.800
and were subject to body checks.

01:26:18.800 --> 01:26:23.800
Police marksmen sat in windows and behind sandbags across the street.

01:26:23.800 --> 01:26:27.800
No food or water was permitted to enter the MOVE compound.

01:26:27.800 --> 01:26:31.800
On May 9, MOVE surrendered its weapons and allowed the city to search their home.

01:26:31.800 --> 01:26:36.800
In the form of a court order, the city gave MOVE 90 days to move.

01:26:36.800 --> 01:26:41.800
August 2, 1978, the 90 days were up and MOVE had not left their headquarters.

01:26:41.800 --> 01:26:44.800
There ain't no deadline as far as the teachings of John Africa go.

01:26:44.800 --> 01:26:46.800
This is our house. We're going to always be here.

01:26:46.800 --> 01:26:48.800
We're never going to recognize on the deadline,

01:26:48.800 --> 01:26:50.800
except by those sadistic goon-like Rizzo.

01:26:50.800 --> 01:26:56.800
MOVE, its supporters, the media, and police waited and prepared themselves for the confrontation

01:26:56.800 --> 01:27:14.800
as a judge issued warrants against 21 MOVE members for violating the original court order.

01:27:14.800 --> 01:27:20.800
...petition and accompanying affidavits and a mention of Sheldon A. Albert, city solicitor,

01:27:20.800 --> 01:27:28.800
attorney for the plaintiff petitioner, a rule is hereby granted upon Janet Holloway, Consuela Dotson,

01:27:28.800 --> 01:27:38.800
Janine Africa, Charles Sims, Edward Goodman, Merrill Austin, Roberta Wicker, Sharon Pan,

01:27:38.800 --> 01:27:57.800
Gail Debbie Sims, Jenna Sims, Frank James, Philip Smith, Delbert Orr, Carlos Perez, Debi Zellversons, Michael Davis, Raymond Chester, Robert Moses, and Sidney Leon, Conrad Hansen.

01:27:57.800 --> 01:28:11.800
We ain't going to give it to you. Come on with it. You ain't got to come up here with us.

01:28:11.800 --> 01:28:13.800
Stan, you see us right here.

01:28:13.800 --> 01:28:14.800
You see the court right here, man.

01:28:14.800 --> 01:28:19.800
Why should we go to court to give some kind of sanction to this so-called legal murder?

01:28:19.800 --> 01:28:21.800
Is it going to stop him from killing us?

01:28:21.800 --> 01:28:26.800
We've been going to court for six years and Rizzo's still talking about bringing this bullshit to our door.

01:28:26.800 --> 01:28:28.800
Talking about bringing this Gestapo truce in our home.

01:28:28.800 --> 01:28:32.800
Talking about law and order, you've been talking about murder at the same time.

01:28:32.800 --> 01:28:37.800
Talking about he going to call concern for kids while still they arming them squat truce.

01:28:37.800 --> 01:28:42.800
Them fat filthy cops up there with machine guns and all other kinds of death-dealing merchandise.

01:28:42.800 --> 01:28:44.800
And talking about he concerned about somebody.

01:28:44.800 --> 01:28:48.800
This man is talking about killing somebody over a so-called civil contempt of court.

01:28:48.800 --> 01:28:52.800
Since when has death been the penalties for contempt of court?

01:28:52.800 --> 01:28:56.800
We're saying, you know, don't look at move as crazy. Look at your boss as crazy.

01:28:56.800 --> 01:29:01.800
We've got somebody that's talking about murdering somebody while I look at the person that's being murdered.

01:29:01.800 --> 01:29:07.800
Rizzo is saying the MOVE organization has the right to die. We don't have the right to live.

01:29:07.800 --> 01:29:12.800
What he's telling Rizzo is anytime that you've got a system that has death under its seat,

01:29:12.800 --> 01:29:18.800
that has rape under its seat, that's turning the whole fucking globe up and down, then you've got a problem.

01:29:18.800 --> 01:29:22.800
And what the MOVE organization is saying is we're talking about eliminating that problem.

01:29:22.800 --> 01:29:29.800
And anytime that you allow Rizzo or this system to tell you that we can't put out information given to us by John Appert

01:29:29.800 --> 01:29:33.800
to clear up the situation, then he ain't talking about being raped.

01:29:33.800 --> 01:29:37.800
Because what MOVE is saying, anytime you've got a peaceful people like this organization

01:29:37.800 --> 01:29:41.800
and you have Rizzo talking about we ain't healthy, we've got health hazards in here,

01:29:41.800 --> 01:29:46.800
that's a goddamn lie because we had people in this organization during the confrontation from May 20th

01:29:46.800 --> 01:29:50.800
that had babies in this organization, healthy babies, strong babies.

01:29:50.800 --> 01:29:53.800
And Rizzo's trying to tell the people that we sick, that we unhealthy.

01:29:53.800 --> 01:29:57.800
He's trying to win the opinion of the people so he can come in here and kill us.

01:29:57.800 --> 01:30:01.800
And people be saying, yeah, that's right, MOVE needed to be killed because they was diseased.

01:30:01.800 --> 01:30:04.800
MOVE needed to be killed because they ain't take a bath, which is a goddamn lie

01:30:04.800 --> 01:30:09.800
because it don't matter how you look, how you dress, because if you write and you talk about being clean,

01:30:09.800 --> 01:30:13.800
your appearance don't matter because you saying you got Rizzo that wears a Brooke Brothers suit,

01:30:13.800 --> 01:30:16.800
all kinds of nice bod, nice fat leather shoes.

01:30:16.800 --> 01:30:19.800
I'm saying he's a nasty motherfuckers on the face of this earth.

01:30:19.800 --> 01:30:21.800
They ain't got to have no clean clothes to be clean.

01:30:21.800 --> 01:30:27.800
What MOVE is saying, is anytime that you will allow a man to sit there and lie to you,

01:30:27.800 --> 01:30:31.800
embezzle from you because he's all dressed up and all fashionable, you're making a big mistake.

01:30:31.800 --> 01:30:36.800
I'm saying people will look at us because our hair is uncombed and because we dress like this,

01:30:36.800 --> 01:30:39.800
they'll turn the fuck off. They don't want to live next to us,

01:30:39.800 --> 01:30:43.800
but they'll turn the fuck around and live right next to a motherfucker like Rizzo.

01:30:43.800 --> 01:30:48.800
What do you think this city wants out of here? What do you think the real reasons for,

01:30:48.800 --> 01:30:52.800
why do you think Rizzo is coming down this party with the, you know,

01:30:52.800 --> 01:31:00.800
Jaxle, money, profit, and aside from that, it's a personal vendetta.

01:31:00.800 --> 01:31:04.800
It's a personal vendetta. Alright.

01:31:04.800 --> 01:31:09.800
It's been the city's best interest to really, you know, still come out of this thing,

01:31:09.800 --> 01:31:13.800
you know, is what is the best interest of all the people of Philadelphia.

01:31:13.800 --> 01:31:17.800
That's why I said earlier, I think that the remarks of Ed Rendell are very unfortunate.

01:31:17.800 --> 01:31:21.800
You know, we better get out, or if they're going to resist, they better do it through nonviolence.

01:31:21.800 --> 01:31:23.800
What if they do resist?

01:31:23.800 --> 01:31:27.800
If they resist, there's going to be some violence, and then if there's bloodshed,

01:31:27.800 --> 01:31:31.800
we can't ignore that. We can't let anybody thumb their nose at the law.

01:31:31.800 --> 01:31:34.800
I'm going to talk about the role he played during the negotiations.

01:31:34.800 --> 01:31:37.800
I kept quiet for a long time, and that really made me sick, you know,

01:31:37.800 --> 01:31:39.800
the fact that I knew things and I wasn't sad.

01:31:39.800 --> 01:31:43.800
I mean, I think the idea of this notion of playing hard and playing tough,

01:31:43.800 --> 01:31:46.800
a lot of that has to do with the fact that he's having his problems with the police.

01:31:46.800 --> 01:31:50.800
And I think that, you know, you have to clearly understand to try to sacrifice this family,

01:31:50.800 --> 01:31:55.800
because you haven't pointed to the police, or try to use this as the basis for trying to make your own political campaign

01:31:55.800 --> 01:31:58.800
for mayor and all, is a dangerous thing, is a dangerous ploy.

01:31:58.800 --> 01:32:04.800
Like for five years, OK, MOVE has been opposed in the city,

01:32:04.800 --> 01:32:08.800
and they have never been quiet about the way they really feel about the system.

01:32:08.800 --> 01:32:11.800
That made them the enemy to Rizzo.

01:32:11.800 --> 01:32:14.800
I was coming out with a monitoring system we had developed over the months,

01:32:14.800 --> 01:32:18.800
or three times a day, or so, after two months, or less than two months I stopped,

01:32:18.800 --> 01:32:21.800
because there wasn't a need for it. They were happy, healthy, moving, viable.

01:32:21.800 --> 01:32:24.800
Whatever kind of a nuisance there was seemed to have been invaded.

01:32:24.800 --> 01:32:31.800
The neighbors were saying that they recognized the differences, and the community was enjoying, I mean, solid peace.

01:32:31.800 --> 01:32:35.800
MOVE are very warm people, peaceful people.

01:32:35.800 --> 01:32:39.800
They're not violent, like people say, you know, like this Jerry Goldberg,

01:32:39.800 --> 01:32:46.800
who said that MOVE has threatened him several times, caused the men across the street to have a heart attack.

01:32:46.800 --> 01:32:51.800
MOVE simply gives people information, and if you can't deal with it, that is on you.

01:32:51.800 --> 01:32:59.800
We were together before MOVE, since I was 15, we've been together.

01:32:59.800 --> 01:33:06.800
But since MOVE, we've had a real marriage, you know, because when he was out in the lifestyle, he was acting crazy.

01:33:06.800 --> 01:33:09.800
Well, what's his lifestyle before he was a MOVE member?

01:33:09.800 --> 01:33:19.800
He was into everything. He used to steal cars, he was into Islam, you know, just hopping back from one thing to another.

01:33:19.800 --> 01:33:21.800
How many people are here now that you have no idea?

01:33:21.800 --> 01:33:24.800
And one of the things I try hard to do is make sure I don't know,

01:33:24.800 --> 01:33:31.800
so in case there's something that they don't want people to know, I can't say I know and don't.

01:33:31.800 --> 01:33:34.800
Right now, you got a court injunction about the house?

01:33:34.800 --> 01:33:36.800
Make sure that house stays intact.

01:33:36.800 --> 01:33:44.800
Make sure that nobody, well, it's not a matter of it being grand, it's a matter of filing it, you know, to prevent anybody from touching one brick.

01:33:44.800 --> 01:33:46.800
It has been filed?

01:33:46.800 --> 01:33:48.800
I'm going my way now, if you all let me go.

01:33:48.800 --> 01:33:55.800
Rizzo ain't pay no attention to this house until he start hearing the information that John has, until he start realizing what we living for.

01:33:55.800 --> 01:33:58.800
The house is not the issue. Rizzo wants to get rid of MOVE.

01:33:58.800 --> 01:34:05.800
If it has something to do with this house, ask him to explain why Jermia's African's baby was killed on March 26, 28.

01:34:05.800 --> 01:34:11.800
Was the house the issue then? Was the house the issue when I was beaten to death in the detention center?

01:34:11.800 --> 01:34:16.800
Was the house the issue when Lee St. Africa's baby was murdered, kicked out of our stomach by 50-50 pounds?

01:34:16.800 --> 01:34:22.800
Was it a so-called agreement when Rhonda was beat by Sheraton City Hall and she had a miscarriage?

01:34:22.800 --> 01:34:24.800
Didn't have anything to do with the house? No.

01:34:24.800 --> 01:34:28.800
Alright, but this is the kind of stuff that Rizzo don't want put out there to the people.

01:34:28.800 --> 01:34:36.800
What he want put out there is move people's disease, move people as irrational, they out there for themselves, they idiots, and they broke an agreement.

01:34:36.800 --> 01:34:54.800
What about when blacks here, right here on 309 North 33rd, majority black organization is being persecuted, being starved, being beaten, being killed off, being constantly threatened by Rizzo and the police, and not a goddamn word is spoken out about by the news media, by Rizzo, by Carter, by Andrew Young.

01:34:54.800 --> 01:35:00.800
Now what is that for Jews late and pregnant? Because they don't see blacks as worthy of speaking out on that situation.

01:35:00.800 --> 01:35:07.800
They see them as trash, they see them as dirt. You know, if you're Jewish, if you're Soviet, if you're Irish, that's a fashion that's being taken out on.

01:35:07.800 --> 01:35:15.800
Alright, but if you're black, you know, you're just dirt. The hell with that. You know, why should we speak out on that? You might as well be exterminating, you ain't no goddamn good.

01:35:15.800 --> 01:35:22.800
And this is the very thing that we are constantly confronting and demonstrating, and it's the very goddamn thing that the news media never picks up on and never prints.

01:35:22.800 --> 01:35:31.800
...never putting out the facts when them cops were sitting over there calling our women nasty nigger bitches, when they were throwing rocks and glasses that the whole neighborhood saw them throwing over here.

01:35:31.800 --> 01:35:39.800
That didn't hit the paper. But every time Mood came out here, you're talking about Mood jailed and vexed at the cops. Mood yelled profanity at the cops.

01:35:39.800 --> 01:35:47.800
For a gay job in X-Boys tape, putting it out, talking about Mood looking for publicity. We ain't called none of you out here. You're editors and you're publishers sent you out here.

01:35:47.800 --> 01:35:52.800
We're saying if you don't want Mood to have no publicity, don't write those stories. We don't agree with none of that.

01:35:52.800 --> 01:36:00.800
...TV stations and major newspapers, prejudice. They've never printed the truth, you know what I mean?

01:36:00.800 --> 01:36:08.800
Because they are for the system. They are in the system. And they are in the same system that Mood is opposed to.

01:36:08.800 --> 01:36:19.800
And for Mood to express their principle, anybody that would hear that principle can recognize that it is against them.

01:36:19.800 --> 01:36:29.800
They can recognize that it is a threat. And if a person is feeling threatened by something, and they try to remove themselves from the threat or try to get rid of the threat,

01:36:29.800 --> 01:36:39.800
and it would help them to destroy Mood along with Rizzo destroying them because then they could keep their jobs and keep on writing those blood, guts stories.

01:36:39.800 --> 01:36:44.800
You know, making a living off of people being slaughtered, raped. Yeah, the system.

01:36:44.800 --> 01:36:51.800
Are you personally willing to give up your life in your belief of the teachings of John Alfred?

01:36:51.800 --> 01:37:01.800
I'm willing to take that commitment all the way. If Rizzo come in here, I'm willing to fight Rizzo off to the death, which is he'll be murdering me.

01:37:01.800 --> 01:37:10.800
Saying I would rather die than have to live under the stranglehold of Rizzo, live under the stagnated insanity of his administration.

01:37:10.800 --> 01:37:17.800
Saying to live under the teachings of John Africa and do what's right is to be free, even if it means dying.

01:37:17.800 --> 01:37:22.800
If I have to die to bring Rizzo to his knees and get rid of him, I'll do it.

01:37:22.800 --> 01:37:28.800
I'm saying that we have our babies here with us because that's where they belong.

01:37:28.800 --> 01:37:31.800
When Sue left, Sue didn't leave her baby here.

01:37:31.800 --> 01:37:39.800
Saying our babies belong with the mothers, just like they was here during the whole confrontation before they're going to stay here now.

01:37:39.800 --> 01:37:49.800
Saying if he wants to kill MOVE members, especially black MOVE members, then the only way my baby will be safe is to get rid of Rizzo, not get rid of my baby.

01:37:49.800 --> 01:37:58.800
You get rid of the mentality that's going to harm the baby, not send your child away, because Rizzo will go all over the city to find MOVE members and kill them.

01:37:58.800 --> 01:38:04.800
I'm saying there's no way that I can send my child unless I get rid of that sickle, get rid of that maniac.

01:38:04.800 --> 01:38:12.800
I'm collecting material by taping and interviewing MOVE members. I started with that because I felt that MOVE hasn't been adequately represented in the press.

01:38:12.800 --> 01:38:19.800
I wasn't satisfied with the definitive versions, as given by Kitty Caparella, Jim Quinn, and Drummer over the years.

01:38:19.800 --> 01:38:28.800
And I investigated it. I talked with both sides, and I talked with every name that came up regarding it, except for the city, which is more difficult to contact, especially right now.

01:38:28.800 --> 01:38:30.800
You've tried to contact the city?

01:38:30.800 --> 01:38:39.800
Yes, it's not easy, and it will take a little time. I'm sure after things cool over they'll be willing to discuss it, but right now, because things are changing hour by hour, it's impossible to get through to them.

01:38:39.800 --> 01:38:41.800
And how have you investigated MOVE itself?

01:38:41.800 --> 01:38:47.800
I've been through every floor, through front and backyards, and I checked out every activity that I could, that they would permit me to.

01:38:47.800 --> 01:38:52.800
Could you tell us about some of the activities and what the house does look like inside?

01:38:52.800 --> 01:39:07.800
It's bare inside, and the living quarters, which are the upper floors, are neat, but worn and unadorned. There's a few superfluous things. It's just functional, just like their clothes are functional.

01:39:07.800 --> 01:39:16.800
But it's civilized. There's a lot of dogs in there. There's 48 the last count, although now there are 48 dogs that they run every day.

01:39:16.800 --> 01:39:25.800
And they keep in top physical shape by working out hours every day, boxing, pulling up, push-ups, calisthenics.

01:39:25.800 --> 01:39:28.800
There's a lot of pregnant women. What about the pregnant women?

01:39:28.800 --> 01:39:31.800
Well, they don't use birth control, so the women who are pregnant box.

01:39:31.800 --> 01:39:33.800
As far as their exercise is concerned.

01:39:33.800 --> 01:39:37.800
The women who are pregnant box, however, they don't, of course, box to the chest.

01:39:37.800 --> 01:39:44.800
I do push-ups, pull-ups, run when I can, all of it.

01:39:44.800 --> 01:39:49.800
So everybody partakes in physical activities. I've seen little children, five years old, doing many push-ups.

01:39:49.800 --> 01:39:53.800
So they're impressive physically. They're in top physical condition.

01:39:53.800 --> 01:40:00.800
They eat raw foods. They eat raw eggs, yams, white potato, garlic, onion.

01:40:00.800 --> 01:40:05.800
So they watch their diet, and they eat freely throughout the day.

01:40:05.800 --> 01:40:17.800
They have their own culture, and it's determined by John Africa, who is a living human being who is incognito and who is a fugitive, I understand.

01:40:17.800 --> 01:40:20.800
But it's an organization that goes back five years, and it has a complicated legal history,

01:40:20.800 --> 01:40:27.800
in which there are charges by the police and counter-charges by MOVE. Hundreds of legal cases involved.

01:40:27.800 --> 01:40:36.800
But the MOVE organization is crazy, so it can kill everybody in this house and justify it by using public opinion.

01:40:36.800 --> 01:40:41.800
For everybody out there to understand, we will knock that down for business.

01:40:41.800 --> 01:40:48.800
If a prisoner were to come in here and create a mass murder, a massacre, he could come in with it.

01:40:48.800 --> 01:40:53.800
The only way he's going to get us out of this house is to kill everybody in this house.

01:40:53.800 --> 01:40:57.800
There's nowhere in the world he's going to get away with this.

01:40:57.800 --> 01:41:04.800
And as long as people see from what they hear, as long as people go ahead and see through that smoke screen,

01:41:04.800 --> 01:41:08.800
there's nowhere in the world you can keep on pushing that so-called idea.

01:41:08.800 --> 01:41:12.800
The police will be in there to drag them out by the backs of their necks.

01:41:12.800 --> 01:41:14.800
There will be a consultation this time.

01:41:14.800 --> 01:41:17.800
I don't know, it's up to them whether it's no barricades, Mike.

01:41:17.800 --> 01:41:21.800
They're going to be taken by force if they resist.

01:41:21.800 --> 01:41:24.800
No question about that, children or not.

01:41:24.800 --> 01:41:28.800
When they come in though, and they say they're going to arrest you, they start taking you outside.

01:41:28.800 --> 01:41:29.800
What are you doing that for?

01:41:29.800 --> 01:41:30.800
It was necessary, man.

01:41:30.800 --> 01:41:31.800
Which means what?

01:41:31.800 --> 01:41:32.800
The strategy of John Africa.

01:41:32.800 --> 01:41:33.800
Which means what?

01:41:33.800 --> 01:41:34.800
What's right.

01:41:34.800 --> 01:41:35.800
Which means what?

01:41:35.800 --> 01:41:36.800
The strategy of John Africa.

01:41:36.800 --> 01:41:37.800
Okay.

01:41:37.800 --> 01:41:40.800
Do you cite the strategy of John Africa or do you actually do something?

01:41:40.800 --> 01:41:43.800
The strategy of John Africa is the strategy that is right.

01:41:43.800 --> 01:41:48.800
The strategy that kept every last one of us alive last year during this whole competition.

01:41:48.800 --> 01:41:50.800
But they didn't come in to get you last year.

01:41:50.800 --> 01:41:53.800
If they did so, you say what do you call a blockade?

01:41:53.800 --> 01:41:56.800
What do you call a blockade where they cut off our food and water?

01:41:56.800 --> 01:42:02.800
What do you call 100 cops marching down the street to our very gate with a little truck to pull down our fence?

01:42:02.800 --> 01:42:04.800
If they ain't coming in to get us, what do you call it?

01:42:04.800 --> 01:42:05.800
Do you have that around your house?

01:42:05.800 --> 01:42:09.800
What do you think they've been doing for seven years, man, playing chess with us, man?

01:42:09.800 --> 01:42:12.800
The quote from Rizzo yesterday was, we will drag them out by the scraps of their necks.

01:42:12.800 --> 01:42:14.800
He's been dragging us the fuck out for seven years, man.

01:42:14.800 --> 01:42:15.800
You understand that, man?

01:42:15.800 --> 01:42:18.800
What the fuck you think he did March 28th in 76?

01:42:18.800 --> 01:42:22.800
They dragged me the fuck out in front of my door, man, and beat me in my goddamn head.

01:42:22.800 --> 01:42:26.800
And I had aces in my goddamn back for two fucking years.

01:42:26.800 --> 01:42:29.800
They dragged my baby on the goddamn curb and stomped it, man.

01:42:29.800 --> 01:42:32.800
I'm saying you questioning us, you want us to put it out there.

01:42:32.800 --> 01:42:35.800
So if we say, yeah, we're going to fight a cop, you put it all over the place.

01:42:35.800 --> 01:42:37.800
That move is going to result in violence.

01:42:37.800 --> 01:42:39.800
Yeah, you want us to fight, but you want them to fight.

01:42:39.800 --> 01:42:44.800
When Rizzo said he was going to use force, did you question him, the pinpoint him, to say what kind of force he was going to use?

01:42:44.800 --> 01:42:47.800
Yes, he said we will drag them out by the scraps of their necks.

01:42:47.800 --> 01:42:49.800
He answered that question.

01:42:49.800 --> 01:42:52.800
Did you ask him what if they resist the scrap of the neck?

01:42:52.800 --> 01:42:56.800
Did you make him go down in detail to say, well, yeah, if they resist, I'm going to kill them?

01:42:56.800 --> 01:42:58.800
Did you make him put out his intentions?

01:42:58.800 --> 01:42:59.800
No.

01:42:59.800 --> 01:43:01.800
You don't never question Rizzo.

01:43:01.800 --> 01:43:02.800
And Rizzo is questionable.

01:43:02.800 --> 01:43:05.800
That man ain't told the truth since he got an offer.

01:43:05.800 --> 01:43:08.800
That man ain't been agreeable since he got the name of man.

01:43:08.800 --> 01:43:11.800
We're saying it's about time that y'all start putting the truth.

01:43:11.800 --> 01:43:13.800
Don't question the person that's telling the truth.

01:43:13.800 --> 01:43:15.800
Question the person that's telling the lie.

01:43:15.800 --> 01:43:18.800
We're saying we ain't talking about hurting nobody's religion.

01:43:18.800 --> 01:43:20.800
We ain't talking about killing off nobody's religion.

01:43:20.800 --> 01:43:22.800
Rizzo is talking about religion persecution.

01:43:22.800 --> 01:43:25.800
He's talking about putting us in a gas oven.

01:43:25.800 --> 01:43:27.800
He's talking about killing our babies.

01:43:27.800 --> 01:43:30.800
Genocide like they did to Indians, like they did to Jews.

01:43:30.800 --> 01:43:35.800
We're saying it's about time that the news media start questioning Rizzo's rep.

01:43:35.800 --> 01:43:40.800
Saying he's the one using an excuse to slot off a whole black family, not moving.

01:43:40.800 --> 01:43:45.800
A cherry picker is used as a battering ram to punch out the wooden slats protecting the windows.

01:43:45.800 --> 01:43:48.800
At 6.55, a squad of police enters the house.

01:43:48.800 --> 01:43:50.800
Little is heard.

01:43:50.800 --> 01:43:52.800
At 7 o'clock, another squad goes in.

01:43:52.800 --> 01:43:54.800
All Move members go to the basement.

01:43:54.800 --> 01:43:59.800
And then they had said they couldn't find no Move members inside the house.

01:43:59.800 --> 01:44:02.800
At 7.20, the bulldozer is used again to clear a basement window

01:44:02.800 --> 01:44:06.800
where a Catholic nun senior tries to talk Move members into surrender.

01:44:06.800 --> 01:44:08.800
At 8.10, screaming is heard from the house.

01:44:08.800 --> 01:44:13.800
I was standing on a porch, 3207 Pearl Street.

01:44:13.800 --> 01:44:18.800
And I could hear, well, it's only about 20 feet from Move headquarters.

01:44:18.800 --> 01:44:21.800
I could hear voices. I could distinguish who was calling.

01:44:21.800 --> 01:44:24.800
You know, I could distinguish the kids crying.

01:44:24.800 --> 01:44:28.800
You know, very clearly, he was calling out for help.

01:44:28.800 --> 01:44:33.800
And two minutes later, hoses are blasted at the house to flood Move members out of the basement.

01:44:33.800 --> 01:44:37.800
They'll find they broke in the cellar window and start putting water in his hand, bringing the kids out.

01:44:37.800 --> 01:44:42.800
12 minutes after 8, firemen are dead, dead using water.

01:44:42.800 --> 01:44:47.800
The Move members were absurd with fire arms in the basement.

01:44:59.800 --> 01:45:05.800
Firemen are now using a deluge gun on the side of the Move headquarters.

01:45:05.800 --> 01:45:11.800
Then at 8.15, several shots ring out, followed by a barrage of police gunfire.

01:45:20.800 --> 01:45:23.800
The press, who stood by in a bullpen, all hit the ground.

01:45:23.800 --> 01:45:39.800
As officers themselves moving back, cried out to reporters, you'd better get out of here.

01:45:39.800 --> 01:45:43.800
Police officers shot on the corner.

01:45:43.800 --> 01:45:49.800
Police men, two police men are hit on the side of Pearl Street.

01:45:49.800 --> 01:45:53.800
Two police men on the side of Pearl Street have been hit by fire.

01:45:59.800 --> 01:46:03.800
Police men being helped in a personnel carrier.

01:46:03.800 --> 01:46:07.800
Second police men being helped in a personnel carrier is hit by fire from Move.

01:46:07.800 --> 01:46:10.800
And the tear gas filled up Pearl Street.

01:46:10.800 --> 01:46:13.800
I mean, you couldn't see in front of you.

01:46:13.800 --> 01:46:16.800
There was as much tear gas on Pearl Street, so we couldn't see too good.

01:46:16.800 --> 01:46:19.800
Gail was still in the house behind looking for people.

01:46:19.800 --> 01:46:22.800
The cops were running around like a bunch of fucking maniacs.

01:46:22.800 --> 01:46:25.800
You see, they were just running here and there.

01:46:25.800 --> 01:46:26.800
They didn't know what the hell to do.

01:46:26.800 --> 01:46:29.800
They were so disorganized, they looked like a bunch of fools.

01:46:29.800 --> 01:46:31.800
Now we ain't talking about picking up no gun.

01:46:31.800 --> 01:46:35.800
We ain't talking about like getting no gun and killing no few cops.

01:46:35.800 --> 01:47:02.800
Because if we wanted to do that, we could have done that last time.

01:47:02.800 --> 01:47:04.800
The Remove members crawled out.

01:47:04.800 --> 01:47:26.800
One of them at least still had the strength to yell obscenities at police.

01:47:26.800 --> 01:47:30.800
I'm saying I'm willing to take that commitment all the way.

01:47:30.800 --> 01:47:35.800
If Rizzo come in here, I'm willing to fight Rizzo off to the death,

01:47:35.800 --> 01:47:37.800
which is he'll be murdering me.

01:47:37.800 --> 01:47:42.800
Saying I would rather die than have to live under the stranglehold of Rizzo,

01:47:42.800 --> 01:47:46.800
live under the stagnated insanity of his administration.

01:47:46.800 --> 01:47:58.800
The child from Move just crawled out through the basement window.

01:47:58.800 --> 01:48:03.800
It's actually 845, a fire meter flooding the building with water again.

01:48:03.800 --> 01:48:16.800
Men, women and naked children crawl out basement windows.

01:48:16.800 --> 01:48:21.800
You were with the fellow Women Move members when you did come to jail.

01:48:21.800 --> 01:48:23.800
What condition were they in and what did they have to say?

01:48:23.800 --> 01:48:24.800
Strong.

01:48:24.800 --> 01:48:28.800
They were hurt, but they were strong.

01:48:28.800 --> 01:48:34.800
One of the sisters, she came in and they had her chained from the foot,

01:48:34.800 --> 01:48:35.800
Janet Africa.

01:48:35.800 --> 01:48:40.800
They had her braced from the foot up to her waist.

01:48:40.800 --> 01:48:44.800
They had her in a straight jacket and had a rope tie behind her,

01:48:44.800 --> 01:48:47.800
leaning her like a dog.

01:48:47.800 --> 01:49:05.800
There's a male in the back window here.

01:49:05.800 --> 01:49:07.800
At one point, these moments of violence.

01:49:07.800 --> 01:49:11.800
As a black man goes behind a police van, there is a flash of white above his head.

01:49:11.800 --> 01:49:14.800
The next scene captured by the camera is this.

01:49:14.800 --> 01:49:17.800
A man is on the ground. Police surround him.

01:49:17.800 --> 01:49:22.800
Our news camera is located in a third floor apartment diagonally across the street from Move headquarters.

01:49:22.800 --> 01:49:27.800
The armored truck is the same one into which police had just dragged two of their injured brother officers.

01:49:27.800 --> 01:49:29.800
We don't know what sparked the violence here.

01:49:29.800 --> 01:49:37.800
Was the black man resisting arrest or were some police officers' tempers spilling over as they dragged their wounded from the line of fire?

01:49:37.800 --> 01:49:38.800
I'll be charged with murder.

01:49:38.800 --> 01:49:40.800
It would all be accomplices then, isn't it?

01:49:40.800 --> 01:49:41.800
Oh, absolutely.

01:49:41.800 --> 01:49:42.800
The violence had abated.

01:49:42.800 --> 01:49:46.800
The focus was now switched to the hospitals where the dead and wounded were taken.

01:49:46.800 --> 01:49:49.800
I heard about some people arrested right here.

01:49:49.800 --> 01:49:53.800
Yeah, the cops jumped on people, started beating them in the head.

01:49:53.800 --> 01:49:55.800
Yeah, why? What was happening?

01:49:55.800 --> 01:49:57.800
People were running.

01:49:57.800 --> 01:50:00.800
People were running. Somebody was throwing stuff and everybody started running.

01:50:00.800 --> 01:50:02.800
They just started kicking everybody around.

01:50:02.800 --> 01:50:05.800
Kicking people's doors open, dragging them out their homes.

01:50:05.800 --> 01:50:07.800
This one down out here.

01:50:07.800 --> 01:50:10.800
You know, they always use the excuse that, well, they was moving members.

01:50:10.800 --> 01:50:13.800
Were those people moving members? What's their excuse this time?

01:50:13.800 --> 01:50:15.800
They're innocent people.

01:50:15.800 --> 01:50:17.800
They're going to keep going on newsstands.

01:50:17.800 --> 01:50:20.800
You know, because people don't like this, right?

01:50:20.800 --> 01:50:25.800
All the while they played a news media that the people in Pountain Village agreed with what was going down.

01:50:25.800 --> 01:50:26.800
That was a lie.

01:50:26.800 --> 01:50:32.800
And of course our attentions also turn to the city, to this city that for the moment may be troubled.

01:50:32.800 --> 01:50:39.800
But as in the past, I think we can expect Philadelphia not only to mend its own wounds, but also become stronger when they're healed.

01:50:39.800 --> 01:50:41.800
This is that kind of city.

01:50:41.800 --> 01:50:48.800
Anybody that listens to what they hear on the radio and think that that's the total truth is insane because the press cannot.

01:50:48.800 --> 01:50:54.800
If the press were to tell the truth about what's happening out here, out, they'd be out of business quick.

01:50:54.800 --> 01:50:57.800
They cannot be truthful.

01:50:57.800 --> 01:51:05.800
They have to be biased and prejudiced with their information and edit all the true facts to say a little or nothing.

01:51:05.800 --> 01:51:08.800
Because that's what they're saying, little or nothing.

01:51:08.800 --> 01:51:11.800
What are you moving the people back for?

01:51:11.800 --> 01:51:16.800
You don't know.

01:51:16.800 --> 01:51:20.800
Who gave the orders for you to move the people across the street?

01:51:20.800 --> 01:51:19.340
The

01:51:19.340 --> 01:51:21.800
after-expector.

01:51:21.800 --> 01:51:29.800
All they tell you is that this shit started because MOVE wouldn't let the city come inspect the house that there's no reason for them to inspect it.

01:51:29.800 --> 01:51:30.800
Who was they inspecting?

01:51:30.800 --> 01:51:33.800
They ain't had no electric, they ain't had no gas.

01:51:33.800 --> 01:51:34.800
Who was they inspecting?

01:51:34.800 --> 01:51:35.800
How them people was living?

01:51:35.800 --> 01:51:37.800
That ain't none of their motherfucking business.

01:51:37.800 --> 01:51:39.800
How they live ain't nobody's business.

01:51:39.800 --> 01:51:42.800
If they don't never comb their hair, that ain't nobody's business.

01:51:42.800 --> 01:51:45.800
If they don't never take a bath, that ain't nobody's business.

01:51:45.800 --> 01:51:47.800
They wasn't fucking with nobody when they was down there.

01:51:47.800 --> 01:51:50.800
All these cops up here do not belong in our neighborhood.

01:51:50.800 --> 01:51:54.800
These people want these white, racist pigs to go home.

01:51:54.800 --> 01:51:57.800
Back to their own Northeast families where they belong at.

01:51:57.800 --> 01:52:01.800
Go up there and beat heads and transform people's children with their horses.

01:52:01.800 --> 01:52:04.800
They don't want this shit down here. We tired.

01:52:04.800 --> 01:52:17.800
Do you know why you're moving the people back now?

01:52:17.800 --> 01:52:19.800
Any of you?

01:52:19.800 --> 01:52:47.800
Somebody go come in the neighborhood and tell the people to go home.

01:52:47.800 --> 01:52:51.800
They already home, they're standing on their doorsteps and the cops is running them home.

01:52:51.800 --> 01:52:54.800
How much home forever can they go?

01:52:54.800 --> 01:53:02.800
They can't go back to Africa, that is home.

01:53:02.800 --> 01:53:04.800
Will you tell me what you saw that happened?

01:53:04.800 --> 01:53:05.800
I'll tell you what I saw.

01:53:05.800 --> 01:53:08.800
I seen all them cops come running across just grabbing anybody.

01:53:08.800 --> 01:53:11.800
And they took somebody down there and beat the shit out of them.

01:53:11.800 --> 01:53:12.800
For no reason?

01:53:12.800 --> 01:53:14.800
For no reason, they just came running across.

01:53:14.800 --> 01:53:15.800
We were running.

01:53:15.800 --> 01:53:20.800
We ran in the house for safety.

01:53:20.800 --> 01:53:27.800
They followed us, I don't know how many followed behind us, just coming at us with nights.

01:53:27.800 --> 01:53:31.800
That's the way they acted when they went in the move compound.

01:53:31.800 --> 01:53:33.800
They're crazy.

01:53:33.800 --> 01:53:35.800
People were clapping their hands, I was clapping my hands.

01:53:35.800 --> 01:53:37.800
That was all that was going on.

01:53:37.800 --> 01:53:41.800
And we didn't cross the barricade section, we didn't even cross the street.

01:53:41.800 --> 01:53:45.800
And there were maybe 40 people out here and there were 80 cops.

01:53:45.800 --> 01:53:48.800
I was about the only one who didn't get hit probably because I'm white.

01:53:48.800 --> 01:53:50.800
They went into that person's house.

01:53:50.800 --> 01:53:51.800
I thought what are you talking about?

01:53:51.800 --> 01:53:52.800
You're not going to tell me.

01:53:52.800 --> 01:53:53.800
This is your house?

01:53:53.800 --> 01:53:54.800
I live here.

01:53:54.800 --> 01:53:55.800
And what happened just now?

01:53:55.800 --> 01:53:56.800
You tell me.

01:53:56.800 --> 01:53:59.800
I was upstairs in my bedroom trying to change my clothes.

01:53:59.800 --> 01:54:01.800
And here come all these cops.

01:54:01.800 --> 01:54:04.800
They're chasing me there with the night sticks hitting them on the shoulders.

01:54:04.800 --> 01:54:06.800
They're already hurt.

01:54:06.800 --> 01:54:09.800
I'm going to drop two bicycles, my two camp bicycles.

01:54:09.800 --> 01:54:11.800
What are you going to do in your house?

01:54:11.800 --> 01:54:13.800
The man is going to fit in there.

01:54:13.800 --> 01:54:14.800
That's how many were in there.

01:54:14.800 --> 01:54:15.800
How many were in there?

01:54:15.800 --> 01:54:16.800
How many were in there?

01:54:16.800 --> 01:54:17.800
How many were in there?

01:54:17.800 --> 01:54:18.800
Five.

01:54:18.800 --> 01:54:19.800
Five.

01:54:19.800 --> 01:54:20.800
How many were in there?

01:54:20.800 --> 01:54:21.800
We don't know.

01:54:21.800 --> 01:54:22.800
About 15 or so.

01:54:22.800 --> 01:54:23.800
See this is a relief.

01:54:23.800 --> 01:54:24.800
I don't know how hurt they are.

01:54:24.800 --> 01:54:27.800
I know one girl she could hold her leg and the other one she hold on her shoulder.

01:54:27.800 --> 01:54:29.800
But they didn't hit her with the night sticks all on her shoulders.

01:54:29.800 --> 01:54:31.800
See they over there smiling and that there.

01:54:31.800 --> 01:54:32.800
See how they're smiling?

01:54:32.800 --> 01:54:33.800
Yeah.

01:54:33.800 --> 01:54:34.800
You see how they're smiling?

01:54:34.800 --> 01:54:35.800
Yeah.

01:54:35.800 --> 01:54:36.800
Can I get that for you?

01:54:36.800 --> 01:54:39.800
Please get that for you.

01:54:39.800 --> 01:54:40.800
What's your name?

01:54:40.800 --> 01:54:41.800
Daryl.

01:54:41.800 --> 01:54:42.800
Daryl.

01:54:42.800 --> 01:54:43.800
What was happening just before they hit you?

01:54:43.800 --> 01:54:44.800
I was upstairs sleeping.

01:54:44.800 --> 01:54:45.800
Then I heard all these noises.

01:54:45.800 --> 01:54:46.800
Then I ran to wake up.

01:54:46.800 --> 01:54:49.800
Then the cop was swinging the night stick and hit me in my eyes.

01:54:49.800 --> 01:54:50.800
He threw the night stick at you?

01:54:50.800 --> 01:54:51.800
No.

01:54:51.800 --> 01:54:52.800
He was swinging it.

01:54:52.800 --> 01:54:53.800
Swinging it.

01:54:53.800 --> 01:54:54.800
Where were you at that time?

01:54:54.800 --> 01:54:55.800
On top of the steps.

01:54:55.800 --> 01:54:56.800
You were on top of the steps.

01:54:56.800 --> 01:54:57.800
The cop came into the house and did it.

01:54:57.800 --> 01:54:58.800
Yeah.

01:54:58.800 --> 01:54:59.800
It wasn't the Inman's fight.

01:54:59.800 --> 01:55:06.800
You ain't even safe in your own damn house.

01:55:06.800 --> 01:55:09.800
And they don't want you to have no guns to protect yourself.

01:55:09.800 --> 01:55:10.800
You need some protection.

01:55:10.800 --> 01:55:11.800
Now all this shit happens.

01:55:11.800 --> 01:55:12.800
Who can you call to protect you?

01:55:12.800 --> 01:55:13.800
That's right.

01:55:13.800 --> 01:55:14.800
Who can you call?

01:55:14.800 --> 01:55:15.800
Nobody.

01:55:15.800 --> 01:55:21.800
Repeat for us again how the fatality occurred.

01:55:21.800 --> 01:55:26.800
From what we can determine, and remember that investigations take considerable time, you

01:55:26.800 --> 01:55:30.800
have to go to the scene, reconstruct to the degree that you can.

01:55:30.800 --> 01:55:35.800
Remember that the people that we want to reconstruct this with, one of them is dead.

01:55:35.800 --> 01:55:38.800
And the others are incapable of being talked to.

01:55:38.800 --> 01:55:43.800
Do you believe this is just a symbolic gesture tearing the house down at this point, the

01:55:43.800 --> 01:55:44.800
very day of the shootout?

01:55:44.800 --> 01:55:49.800
You said you don't expect this to be the end of the movie.

01:55:49.800 --> 01:55:55.800
The only way we're going to end them when the ones who are responsible get that death

01:55:55.800 --> 01:55:58.800
penalty back and put them in the electric chair and I'll pull the switch.

01:55:58.800 --> 01:56:02.800
When the camp was shot, Delbert Africa was beaten as police took him into custody.

01:56:02.800 --> 01:56:07.800
This week, only two days ago, three of the officers charged in the beating surrendered

01:56:07.800 --> 01:56:08.800
to assault charges.

01:56:08.800 --> 01:56:13.800
That sparked a protest by 500 fellow officers pointing out they also wear blue.

01:56:13.800 --> 01:56:15.800
I wear blue.

01:56:15.800 --> 01:56:16.800
And me too.

01:56:16.800 --> 01:56:17.800
I wear blue.

01:56:17.800 --> 01:56:21.800
And the head of the police union gave his thoughts on those who beat Delbert Africa.

01:56:21.800 --> 01:56:27.800
What they should have done is shot the goddamn bum and then there would have been no trouble

01:56:27.800 --> 01:56:28.800
today.

01:56:28.800 --> 01:56:30.800
They should have killed him.

01:56:30.800 --> 01:56:33.800
Hey Mike, I'll be up there, buddy.

01:56:33.800 --> 01:56:44.800
Why don't they move along?

01:56:44.800 --> 01:56:52.800
I guess they're on a move of their own.

01:56:52.800 --> 01:56:58.800
Nobody messes with them when they sleep at night.

01:56:58.800 --> 01:57:05.800
Now who's wrong and who's right?

01:57:05.800 --> 01:57:07.800
A criminal trial.

01:57:07.800 --> 01:57:09.800
No one wins and no one loses.

01:57:09.800 --> 01:57:17.800
Well it happened, yeah, in the morning.

01:57:17.800 --> 01:57:24.800
What in the world could I do?

01:57:24.800 --> 01:57:33.800
Babies crying, water striking.

01:57:33.800 --> 01:57:37.800
I'm sure that you would go to battle too.

01:57:37.800 --> 01:57:39.800
Knock your door down, knock your fence down.

01:57:39.800 --> 01:57:41.800
Kamen, would you, would you not shoot them?

01:57:41.800 --> 01:57:49.800
They came eleven hundred strong.

01:57:49.800 --> 01:57:57.800
They didn't have to hurt no one.

01:57:57.800 --> 01:58:08.800
Once again with the shackles and chains, who didn't want to live their way?

01:58:08.800 --> 01:58:12.800
It is wonderful that our legal system will spend all of this time and energy deciding

01:58:12.800 --> 01:58:16.800
the guilt or innocence of people who are so out of tune with the rest of our society.

01:58:16.800 --> 01:58:18.800
I think that's a great credit to the American system.

01:58:18.800 --> 01:58:19.800
It is.

01:58:19.800 --> 01:58:27.800
When it was over, yeah, tear gas clearing.

01:58:27.800 --> 01:58:33.800
They didn't feel their fight was won.

01:58:33.800 --> 01:58:42.800
So cops on horseback beat the neighbors randomly.

01:58:42.800 --> 01:58:46.800
Trying to undo what was done.

01:58:46.800 --> 01:58:50.800
You killed my family, you killed my family.

01:58:50.800 --> 01:58:55.800
You broke down our house, you broke in our house.

01:58:55.800 --> 01:59:02.800
Why don't they move along?

01:59:02.800 --> 01:59:10.800
I guess they're on a move of their own.

01:59:10.800 --> 01:59:18.800
Nobody messes with them when they sleep at night.

01:59:18.800 --> 01:59:25.800
Now who's wrong?

01:59:25.800 --> 01:59:28.800
And who's right?

01:59:28.800 --> 01:59:32.800
I want to begin today by turning back the pages of history to a dramatic and deadly

01:59:32.800 --> 01:59:37.800
event that put the city of Philadelphia in the national spotlight and for all the wrong

01:59:37.800 --> 01:59:38.800
reasons.

01:59:38.800 --> 01:59:43.800
It was 1985 when a bomb was dropped on the compound of the radical Back to Nature group

01:59:43.800 --> 01:59:56.800
called Move and it happened right in the heart of a residential neighborhood.

01:59:56.800 --> 02:00:01.800
Eleven people, including five children, were killed and 61 homes and an entire city block

02:00:01.800 --> 02:00:03.800
destroyed from that incident.

02:00:03.800 --> 02:00:10.800
That was 23 years ago, but for many the firestorm of this controversy is still burning today.

02:00:10.800 --> 02:00:16.800
To understand what happened in May of 1985, you have to actually go back seven years prior

02:00:16.800 --> 02:00:20.800
to that when Move was involved in an altercation resulting in the death of a Philadelphia

02:00:20.800 --> 02:00:21.800
police officer.

02:00:21.800 --> 02:00:27.800
Nine members of the group were tried and convicted and sentenced to 30 to 100 years in prison.

02:00:27.800 --> 02:00:32.800
Well, last month they had their first parole hearing and they were denied.

02:00:32.800 --> 02:00:37.800
Ramona Africa is a member of the Move organization and was in the house when the bomb was dropped

02:00:37.800 --> 02:00:42.800
back in 1985 and she's upset now over the parole procedure that still has her family

02:00:42.800 --> 02:00:44.800
members locked up some 30 years later.

02:00:44.800 --> 02:00:46.800
Ramona, thanks for being a part of the program.

02:00:46.800 --> 02:00:50.800
Thanks for the opportunity to inform your audience about what's going on here.

02:00:50.800 --> 02:00:54.800
Well, what I want to do is try and cover as much ground as we can in the time that we

02:00:54.800 --> 02:00:55.800
have.

02:00:55.800 --> 02:01:02.800
Let's begin by saying that in 1985 the bomb was dropped on Philadelphia as we showed and

02:01:02.800 --> 02:01:04.800
dropped on the Move compound.

02:01:04.800 --> 02:01:10.800
But tell me what happened in your opinion in the incident in 1978 that resulted in the

02:01:10.800 --> 02:01:12.800
death of a police officer.

02:01:12.800 --> 02:01:19.800
Well, what happened is because Move tells the truth and speaks out about the injustices

02:01:19.800 --> 02:01:25.800
and racism in this system and could not be stopped, could not be bought off, could not

02:01:25.800 --> 02:01:27.800
be beat into submission.

02:01:27.800 --> 02:01:33.800
The government just basically decided that they needed to exterminate Move and they used

02:01:33.800 --> 02:01:41.800
the excuse of an eviction that Move would not leave our home under an eviction as an

02:01:41.800 --> 02:01:46.800
excuse to come out and not arrest but to kill Move people.

02:01:46.800 --> 02:01:52.800
And this was under the administration of Frank Rizzo in 1978.

02:01:52.800 --> 02:02:00.800
And so the police department, the city of Philadelphia, came to the home of the Move

02:02:00.800 --> 02:02:05.800
organization and actually bulldozed the home down.

02:02:05.800 --> 02:02:06.800
That's correct.

02:02:06.800 --> 02:02:10.800
And we're looking at some of the old footage here that has the fire hoses and so forth

02:02:10.800 --> 02:02:11.800
on the compound.

02:02:11.800 --> 02:02:12.800
This was in 1978.

02:02:12.800 --> 02:02:13.800
That's correct.

02:02:13.800 --> 02:02:16.800
And it's very important to understand two things.

02:02:16.800 --> 02:02:22.800
One, it was the Philadelphia police department and the fire department that was used to

02:02:22.800 --> 02:02:23.800
attack Move.

02:02:23.800 --> 02:02:31.800
And you're absolutely correct in that Move's home was demolished within hours after my

02:02:31.800 --> 02:02:32.800
family was arrested.

02:02:32.800 --> 02:02:38.800
And this is very important because there was a court order from a judge named Calvin Wilson

02:02:38.800 --> 02:02:41.800
that that house was not to be touched.

02:02:41.800 --> 02:02:46.800
There was going to be a hearing on what was happening with that house.

02:02:46.800 --> 02:02:52.800
Despite that, and despite the fact that it had now become a crime scene, the scene of

02:02:52.800 --> 02:02:57.800
a crime where a police officer was killed, they just completely demolished it, which

02:02:57.800 --> 02:03:00.800
is destroying evidence, destroying the scene.

02:03:00.800 --> 02:03:04.800
And Ramona, were you in the compound in 1978 when that shootout took place?

02:03:04.800 --> 02:03:05.800
No, I wasn't.

02:03:05.800 --> 02:03:10.800
From what you were told, from your understanding of it, did the members of the Move organizations

02:03:10.800 --> 02:03:14.800
were they firing weapons back at police as they were being fired upon?

02:03:14.800 --> 02:03:18.800
Not to my knowledge, but to me that's not even an issue.

02:03:18.800 --> 02:03:22.800
People question whether Move had guns, whether Move was shooting.

02:03:22.800 --> 02:03:29.800
But understand, we were in our home minding our business when hundreds of cops and firefighters

02:03:29.800 --> 02:03:35.800
and federal agents attacked us, came out to our home.

02:03:35.800 --> 02:03:36.800
We didn't go to their home.

02:03:36.800 --> 02:03:39.800
They came out to our home attacking us.

02:03:39.800 --> 02:03:46.800
Ramona, I want to read a statement for you from the Fraternal Order of Police and just

02:03:46.800 --> 02:03:47.800
get your response to this.

02:03:47.800 --> 02:03:51.800
Just follow along with me here because we did ask them for their side of this story.

02:03:51.800 --> 02:03:55.800
This statement comes from Michael Lutz, who's the Vice President of the Philadelphia Fraternal

02:03:55.800 --> 02:03:56.800
Order of Police.

02:03:56.800 --> 02:04:01.800
He says, my memory of the Move shootout on August 8th, 1978 was unforgettable.

02:04:01.800 --> 02:04:06.800
Etched in my mind even more that day is seeing police officer Jim Ramp being shot to death,

02:04:06.800 --> 02:04:11.800
along with the pain and suffering of three other police stakeout officers and four firefighters

02:04:11.800 --> 02:04:16.800
who were all seriously wounded as a result of being shot during the confrontation.

02:04:16.800 --> 02:04:20.800
He goes on to say, confiscated from the Move compound after the surrender of the occupants

02:04:20.800 --> 02:04:25.800
were 10 firearms and 200 rounds of ammunition.

02:04:25.800 --> 02:04:30.800
And this proves without a shadow of a doubt, he says, that their intentions were obvious.

02:04:30.800 --> 02:04:34.800
They were malicious intent and they wanted to kill police.

02:04:34.800 --> 02:04:38.800
To this day, the Move members who conspired to kill Officer Ramp during the armed confrontation

02:04:38.800 --> 02:04:42.800
in which they initiated never acknowledged the crimes they committed.

02:04:42.800 --> 02:04:45.800
They have not told the truth about the events of that day.

02:04:45.800 --> 02:04:50.800
They have never apologized, nor have they shown any remorse for their murderous actions.

02:04:50.800 --> 02:04:55.800
Once again, with the violent and history of the background of the subject Move members,

02:04:55.800 --> 02:05:00.800
it is our firm belief that their release from prison would definitely jeopardize the safety

02:05:00.800 --> 02:05:02.800
and well-being of the citizens of Philadelphia.

02:05:02.800 --> 02:05:04.800
Your response to that?

02:05:04.800 --> 02:05:06.800
Oh gosh, where do I start?

02:05:06.800 --> 02:05:10.800
First and foremost, remorse? Taking responsibility?

02:05:10.800 --> 02:05:17.800
When is this government ever going to show any remorse and take responsibility for what it has done?

02:05:17.800 --> 02:05:21.800
I mean, pregnant Move women were beat, stomped, kicked in the miscarriage.

02:05:21.800 --> 02:05:25.800
A three-week-old baby was trampled to death, all by police.

02:05:25.800 --> 02:05:29.800
We didn't go out. We wanted to kill cops.

02:05:29.800 --> 02:05:31.800
Why didn't we go to where cops are?

02:05:31.800 --> 02:05:35.800
We didn't go to their homes, to their police stations or anything.

02:05:35.800 --> 02:05:39.800
They came out to our home armed for war.

02:05:39.800 --> 02:05:47.800
Cops testified that they emptied their guns into the basement of our home where they heard babies crying.

02:05:47.800 --> 02:05:51.800
They couldn't see too good because of the tear gas and it was dark.

02:05:51.800 --> 02:05:58.800
They emptied their guns, refilled them, and emptied them again in corners where they heard babies crying.

02:05:58.800 --> 02:06:03.800
What was Move even being arrested for?

02:06:03.800 --> 02:06:06.800
Why were they out there? For an eviction?

02:06:06.800 --> 02:06:11.800
And this is what they do, but they want Move to talk about remorse and that we killed...

02:06:11.800 --> 02:06:14.800
Let me just make one more point.

02:06:14.800 --> 02:06:20.800
The judge who presided over that trial at the end of that trial, at the end of them presenting all their evidence,

02:06:20.800 --> 02:06:23.800
said he didn't have the faintest idea who killed James.

02:06:23.800 --> 02:06:30.800
Now let's get to the issue of remorse because again, 30 years later, the first parole hearing for the Move 9,

02:06:30.800 --> 02:06:37.800
as the group was called, the Move 9, the ones who were sent to prison, sent us to 30 to 100 years,

02:06:37.800 --> 02:06:43.800
the first parole hearing some 30 years later just passed and they were denied.

02:06:43.800 --> 02:06:47.800
And you say part of the reason they were denied is because they still don't show remorse.

02:06:47.800 --> 02:06:50.800
You say they don't show remorse because they're not guilty.

02:06:50.800 --> 02:06:55.800
Yes, they had their first parole hearing after 30 years on their minimum of 30 years.

02:06:55.800 --> 02:07:01.800
And the main reason that they were denied parole, and it says it right on their parole papers,

02:07:01.800 --> 02:07:07.800
that they quote unquote, refused to take responsibility and admit guilt.

02:07:07.800 --> 02:07:13.800
I mean, first of all, if you're not guilty, why would you say you are?

02:07:13.800 --> 02:07:22.800
Second of all, has the parole board ever heard of the First Amendment? Since when does any agency of this government

02:07:22.800 --> 02:07:29.800
have the right to demand that you say you're guilty, particularly if you're not, but even if you are?

02:07:29.800 --> 02:07:36.800
The Fifth Amendment says that they cannot even make you say you're guilty or demand that you say you're guilty,

02:07:36.800 --> 02:07:37.800
even if you are.

02:07:37.800 --> 02:07:39.800
So what happens now, Ramona?

02:07:39.800 --> 02:07:43.800
My final question, but what will the MOVE organization do at this point?

02:07:43.800 --> 02:07:49.800
It's been 30 years and they're still behind bars and it seems as though this issue is still as hot as it ever was.

02:07:49.800 --> 02:07:51.800
What will the MOVE members do now?

02:07:51.800 --> 02:07:59.800
We're coming after the parole board and their bosses because what they're doing is patently illegal, unconstitutional,

02:07:59.800 --> 02:08:06.800
and we intend to come after them, expose them, and talk about taking responsibility, being held accountable.

02:08:06.800 --> 02:08:08.800
We're going to hold them accountable.

02:08:08.800 --> 02:08:12.800
Ramona Africa, thank you very much for sharing your time with me on this topic.

02:08:12.800 --> 02:08:17.800
Again, it's a very passionate debate that has lingered in the city of Philadelphia for a very long time,

02:08:17.800 --> 02:08:21.800
and as I said, it doesn't seem as though it's going to be ending anytime soon.

02:08:21.800 --> 02:08:24.800
Keep us posted on your endeavors. We do appreciate it. Thank you.

02:08:24.800 --> 02:08:26.800
All right, on to MOVE.

02:08:26.800 --> 02:08:34.800
In MOVE, it's like you always got somebody there who understands your situation, you know, and it makes it a lot easier.

02:08:34.800 --> 02:08:43.800
But growing up without them, some of the things that bothered me was just like simple things like parents stay at school.

02:08:43.800 --> 02:08:51.800
At this point right now, I'm so busy trying to get them released that I don't focus on it anymore.

02:08:51.800 --> 02:08:57.800
And I'm a father of kids of my own, so it's not really like it used to be.

02:08:57.800 --> 02:09:02.800
When I depended on them and I needed them and didn't have them, six or seven years I was in MOVE.

02:09:02.800 --> 02:09:05.800
And I lived with MOVE people.

02:09:05.800 --> 02:09:16.800
And then when my grandmother left the organization, she took me with her.

02:09:16.800 --> 02:09:20.800
And I lived with her up until 1992.

02:09:20.800 --> 02:09:31.800
In my time of being absent at MOVE, I was a very disturbed and bad child.

02:09:31.800 --> 02:09:36.800
And I used to get into things with people. I used to fight a lot in school.

02:09:36.800 --> 02:09:45.800
And one day, these few girls, about three or four girls, decided that they were going to jump my sister.

02:09:45.800 --> 02:09:51.800
And as far as I was concerned, my sister was all I had. She was all I had. She was my older sister.

02:09:51.800 --> 02:09:55.800
We were tight. We are tight. Still, we talk to each other every day.

02:09:55.800 --> 02:10:03.800
She got into this fight with these girls. And when that happened, me feeling like that's all I had,

02:10:03.800 --> 02:10:08.800
and somebody was trying to harm what I had, and this is all I had, so I fought.

02:10:08.800 --> 02:10:17.800
And we fought and we fought. And then she, I think the girls, was beating her up.

02:10:17.800 --> 02:10:25.800
And when we got home, my grandmother, she didn't have an answer for what to do.

02:10:25.800 --> 02:10:33.800
And we were supposed to just continue to go to school and go to school in fear.

02:10:33.800 --> 02:10:38.800
So we didn't. We didn't. And we never went to school again.

02:10:38.800 --> 02:10:48.800
That was 1992, maybe March. Maybe March 92, right before Ramona came home.

02:10:48.800 --> 02:10:50.800
Can you tell me a little about your parents?

02:10:50.800 --> 02:10:53.800
I know more about their situation than I do them.

02:10:53.800 --> 02:11:02.800
I mean, I don't, oftentimes, when I go to visit them, oftentimes, by the time we finish catching up

02:11:02.800 --> 02:11:07.800
and explaining things that's happened in our life, the visit is up.

02:11:07.800 --> 02:11:11.800
We get 15 minutes a week on the phone, and then that's it.

02:11:11.800 --> 02:11:16.800
I mean, by the time they finish saying, or by the time you finish running down a list of people

02:11:16.800 --> 02:11:21.800
who they want you to say things to or whatever, you don't get much time after that.

02:11:21.800 --> 02:11:31.800
And so I don't know much about them. All I know is they're in prison and they're innocent.

02:11:31.800 --> 02:11:39.800
I know that they came and moved when they were young, and they went to prison shortly after coming here to move,

02:11:39.800 --> 02:11:44.800
just a few years. And they've been in prison ever since.

02:11:44.800 --> 02:11:48.800
And I know that they're revolutionaries. I know that they're strong.

02:11:48.800 --> 02:11:56.800
I know that they fight for what they believe in. I don't really know a lot, though.

02:11:56.800 --> 02:12:01.800
We were demonstrating against police brutality. We were demonstrating against the pest doors for

02:12:01.800 --> 02:12:04.800
and the zoos about their treatment or mistreatment of animals.

02:12:04.800 --> 02:12:12.800
We were doing some work with the neighborhood gangs in terms of, you know, selling some of those disputes

02:12:12.800 --> 02:12:20.800
they had out there. But most of our work was centered on the liberation of animals and the liberation of people.

02:12:20.800 --> 02:12:25.800
It must be tough trying to explain to them why their grandparents are in prison.

02:12:25.800 --> 02:12:33.800
Actually, that's the easy part. That's the easy part because we're an organization against this system.

02:12:33.800 --> 02:12:39.800
And one of the easiest ways to get them to understand what this system is about is explaining to them

02:12:39.800 --> 02:12:43.800
why their parents are in prison. You ever see the movie Apocalypto?

02:12:43.800 --> 02:12:50.800
I let my kids watch that movie because there was a lot of very graphic, grueling punishment.

02:12:50.800 --> 02:12:59.800
Very, very graphic. And these are the kind of things that I show my kids to let them know this stuff actually happens.

02:12:59.800 --> 02:13:03.800
This is not a myth. This is not something that's...this is not fiction here.

02:13:03.800 --> 02:13:06.800
This is the things that the system is actually doing to people.

02:13:06.800 --> 02:13:11.800
If you see the police, you know they're part of the system. You don't even have to worry about them being in disguise.

02:13:11.800 --> 02:13:17.800
They're part of the darn system. So, you know, these are the people that put your parents, my parents, in prison

02:13:17.800 --> 02:13:20.800
so that you're separated from your grandparents. They did this stuff.

02:13:20.800 --> 02:13:24.800
The system is the ones that caused Christopher Columbus to come over here and do what he did.

02:13:24.800 --> 02:13:27.800
The system is the ones who got Tony Blair over there acting crazy.

02:13:27.800 --> 02:13:32.800
The system is the ones who got George Bush in office. They put him there. He's there.

02:13:32.800 --> 02:13:35.800
And he's doing all kinds of crazy stuff to those people in Iraq.

02:13:35.800 --> 02:13:38.800
If you're trying to rule over somebody else, it's wrong.

02:13:38.800 --> 02:13:40.800
And I don't care if it's the Iraqi system or the American system.

02:13:40.800 --> 02:13:45.800
I don't agree with George Bush, no more than I agree with Saddam Hussein.

02:13:45.800 --> 02:13:52.800
When the nine MOVE members were convicted of third-degree murder and sentenced to 30 to 100 years of peace,

02:13:52.800 --> 02:13:59.800
several days after that, Judge Edwin Malmert was a guest on a local talk station.

02:13:59.800 --> 02:14:03.800
He was asked by a caller, who killed James Ramp?

02:14:03.800 --> 02:14:08.800
Malmert's response was, I have absolutely no idea. I know what his response was.

02:14:08.800 --> 02:14:11.800
I know what the question was because I was that caller.

02:14:11.800 --> 02:14:16.800
The MOVE people did not kill James Ramp, and these government officials know it,

02:14:16.800 --> 02:14:26.800
particularly people like Ed Rendell, who is now governor and was the district attorney, you know, back then.

02:14:26.800 --> 02:14:33.800
Lynn Abraham, who is now the district attorney, who was a judge back then who signed warrants

02:14:33.800 --> 02:14:37.800
that led to the August 8th police attack on the MOVE.

02:14:37.800 --> 02:14:43.800
These probably would have been legally within their rights to have subsequently the shooting of Officer Ramp

02:14:43.800 --> 02:14:47.800
storm the house and kill all of the 12 people in that basement.

02:14:47.800 --> 02:14:50.800
The police department knows who killed Officer Ramp.

02:14:50.800 --> 02:14:56.800
It was another police officer who inadvertently shot the guy.

02:14:56.800 --> 02:15:03.800
They have fairly substantial evidence that it was a mistake, but again, they'll never admit it.

02:15:03.800 --> 02:15:08.800
We've heard this from a number of different sources in the police department,

02:15:08.800 --> 02:15:14.800
including sources on the SWAT team and sources in the ballistics.

02:15:14.800 --> 02:15:23.800
They should be paroled because they're innocent, and secondly, because they have served 30 years in prison,

02:15:23.800 --> 02:15:30.800
which is their minimum. There is no legitimate reason why they should not be paroled.

02:15:30.800 --> 02:15:35.800
We believe in this system. We're not slaves to this system, but at the same time,

02:15:35.800 --> 02:15:39.800
we don't get involved in a lot of jailhouse nonsense.

02:15:39.800 --> 02:15:47.800
So MOVE people are not problematic in terms of, you know, being in prison and causing, you know,

02:15:47.800 --> 02:15:51.800
all kinds of problems being involved in a lot of nonsense. They're not.

02:15:51.800 --> 02:15:56.800
So there is no legitimate reason why they should not be paroled.

02:15:56.800 --> 02:16:04.800
Historically, with political prisoners especially, parole boards have just basically

02:16:04.800 --> 02:16:10.800
thumbed their nose at their own laws to keep prisoners in prison.

02:16:10.800 --> 02:16:17.800
They have said things like, serious nature of the offense as an excuse to deny prisoners parole,

02:16:17.800 --> 02:16:22.800
especially political prisoners, and that is absolutely illegal.

02:16:22.800 --> 02:16:30.800
It makes no sense at all because when a judge sentences a person, gives them that minimum and maximum sentence,

02:16:30.800 --> 02:16:36.800
the judge has already taken into account the quote unquote serious nature of the offense.

02:16:36.800 --> 02:16:42.800
That's what the judge is sentencing them on, the offense that they were, you know, convicted of.

02:16:42.800 --> 02:16:50.800
So to come back later and say, well, we're not releasing you on your minimum because of the serious nature of the offense,

02:16:50.800 --> 02:16:55.800
it's completely illegal, you know, because that was already taken into account.

02:16:55.800 --> 02:17:03.800
And what it amounts to is re-sentencing a person, you know, giving them a new minimum for real.

02:17:03.800 --> 02:17:10.800
That's illegal. They say, we're denying you parole because of lack of remorse.

02:17:10.800 --> 02:17:17.800
But when a person has maintained their innocence from the very beginning, you know,

02:17:17.800 --> 02:17:21.800
where would the remorse come from? Where would any remorse come from?

02:17:21.800 --> 02:17:28.800
And it's not like government officials can just, you know, dismiss this as, well, you know,

02:17:28.800 --> 02:17:34.800
all prisoners, all, you know, defendants say they're innocent.

02:17:34.800 --> 02:17:45.800
The point is almost every day you read in the papers or hear on the news about officials having to release people from prison,

02:17:45.800 --> 02:17:56.800
because after five, 10, 20, 30 years in prison, their innocence was finally proven to a point where officials just couldn't get around it anymore.

02:17:56.800 --> 02:18:03.800
Do you expect them to require the prisoners to renounce move in order to get release?

02:18:03.800 --> 02:18:09.800
Well, we have no way of predicting that really. I mean, they did that when I came up for parole,

02:18:09.800 --> 02:18:19.800
when Sue Alfonso, Alberta came up for parole, even when Consuelo and Carlos came up for parole.

02:18:19.800 --> 02:18:31.800
But finally, we put so much pressure on them that they backed off that stipulation and Carlos and Consuelo were paroled without that stipulation.

02:18:31.800 --> 02:18:35.800
But that doesn't mean that they, you know, may not try to reinstate it.

02:18:35.800 --> 02:18:40.800
You know, these people are crazy. They're crazy. So they might.

02:18:40.800 --> 02:18:45.800
We know they don't really want move people out on the street. We know that.

02:18:45.800 --> 02:18:50.800
And if they can't go any other way, they might try to reinstate that.

02:18:50.800 --> 02:18:57.800
But it will be so obvious to people and people should not accept that.

02:18:57.800 --> 02:19:02.800
Now, these stipulations that they can use, they don't have to use them, right?

02:19:02.800 --> 02:19:07.800
It's their own discretion whether or not they want to. Absolutely. Absolutely.

02:19:07.800 --> 02:19:11.800
I mean, the stipulation that they put on us, they just invented that.

02:19:11.800 --> 02:19:19.800
You know, it's not something that is on their books that they had to use. They just invented it, came up with it, especially for us.

02:19:19.800 --> 02:19:42.800
You know, they can demand all kinds of things like your home plan. They can demand that it be a certain way and just deny your home plan, you know, for any ridiculous reason or your job plan or say that, you know, they're denying your home plan because it's a crime-infested area.

02:19:42.800 --> 02:19:47.800
This country is a crime-infested area. I mean, what are they talking about?

02:19:47.800 --> 02:19:55.800
But they can just say this stupid stuff to deny people parole. It's at their discretion completely.

02:19:55.800 --> 02:20:08.800
And what we found out from dealing with the parole board back in the 80s and 90s is that they are appointed, you know, by the governor, I believe.

02:20:08.800 --> 02:20:13.800
They don't answer to anybody, really. They're like an autonomous body.

02:20:13.800 --> 02:20:27.800
And everybody that was contacted, you know, about the situation with me and my sisters and brothers having that stipulation put on us, it was like, well, you know, that's up to the parole board. They're autonomous.

02:20:27.800 --> 02:20:31.800
They can, you know, make whatever kind of stipulations they want.

02:20:31.800 --> 02:20:33.800
That is ridiculous.

02:20:33.800 --> 02:20:46.800
Each moved person individually at the prison, you know, where they're housed at, will go for an interview, usually with just one parole board member.

02:20:46.800 --> 02:20:49.800
And the parole board member will interview them.

02:20:49.800 --> 02:20:58.800
And then that person will take their recommendation back to the board, the full board, which is nine people, I believe.

02:20:58.800 --> 02:21:13.800
And they will make a decision based on the recommendation of the parole board member that interviewed the individual moved person.

02:21:13.800 --> 02:21:18.800
It's really impossible to say how they were ruled.

02:21:18.800 --> 02:21:30.800
I just read in the article that was in Yasey's Inquirer where it's a simple majority, five of the nine have to agree for a person to be paroled.

02:21:30.800 --> 02:21:34.800
Right now you're asking people to write letters to the parole board.

02:21:34.800 --> 02:21:43.800
Write, call. If you can get an email address, they really are crazy about not giving out any kind of email address.

02:21:43.800 --> 02:21:51.800
But people can call and write. And it is important because this is not just about move.

02:21:51.800 --> 02:22:06.800
You know, the position that we're taking in exposing these crazy reasons that parole board members used to deny people parole, that doesn't begin and end with move.

02:22:06.800 --> 02:22:12.800
They have historically done this with prisoners, particularly political prisoners.

02:22:12.800 --> 02:22:17.800
You know, just arbitrarily denied them parole for ridiculous reasons.

02:22:17.800 --> 02:22:29.800
And what we're doing is attacking these ridiculous reasons and pointing out that they are illegal, that there's no justification for their unconstitutional.

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And, you know, exposing it so that other inmates won't have to, you know, go through this and be denied parole because of these reasons.

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When the parole board sees that people are aware of what they're doing and that people aren't going for it, that, you know, they're railing up against this, then they won't be so quick to try it with other people either.

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Testimony said, for example, that the bullet came in the left side and went across the body to the right and down. The report said it comes in the right side and goes, so you got a big problem with the authenticity and thus validity of the medical examiner's report.

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The prosecutor took out a pencil and erased items in the report that he did like and wrote it in right there in open court. Now move is objecting, you know, objection, objection, and the judge would say sit down, shut up, you know, and allowed the guy to do that.

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It was probably one of the most important prosecutions in this city's history, so I find it a little strange that the tapes are missing.